Burrell

[fromthestretch]

I believe I've seen his name has been brought up sporadically on this board, but I haven't really heard his name elsewhere as an option for the Cubs.

 

Burrell hasn't played right field...at least in the big leagues. However, he has a good arm, good power, and isn't afraid to take a walk. Chances are, it wouldn't take as much to get him in a trade as it would get Abreu...although, the cost would probably still be high.

 

My questions are:

 

1. Does anyone think the Phillies would even be willing to deal him, especially considering he's pretty much the only right-handed power bat they have (Abreu, Utley, and Howard are all left-handed hitters)?

2. Would you be comfortable with Burrell in RF?

3. What would you be willing to give up to acquire him?

 

Looking at the options available via free agency and most of the options available via trade, I'm not really excited about what's out there. Just thinking out loud.

[CuseCubFan69]

I like Burrell and I'm not sure he even played leftfield. :D

 

He may be cheaper in prospects than Abreu as long as the Cubs foot the bill. I think he is a better choice than many of the names we have read that Hendry is supposidly interested in.

[anemic offense]

The downfall with Burrell is that he extremely enigmatic. You never know exactly what you're going to get. However, if he could produce on the high end of the spectrum then I wouldn't have a problem with it (it's not going to happen though, because obviously Phillie's not going to get rid of Burrell if they're making Abreu available). But with the Cubs record with these such players we'd pry be seeing the worst of his play.

[RynoRules]

The downfall with Burrell is that he extremely enigmatic. You never know exactly what you're going to get. However, if he could produce on the high end of the spectrum then I wouldn't have a problem with it (it's not going to happen though, because obviously Phillie's not going to get rid of Burrell if they're making Abreu available). But with the Cubs record with these such players we'd pry be seeing the worst of his play.

 

:?: :

 

http://www.baseballreference.com/b/burrepa01.shtml

 

Other than that one season, doesn't look enigmatic to me. I'll take him.

[fromthestretch]

The downfall with Burrell is that he extremely enigmatic. You never know exactly what you're going to get. However, if he could produce on the high end of the spectrum then I wouldn't have a problem with it (it's not going to happen though, because obviously Phillie's not going to get rid of Burrell if they're making Abreu available). But with the Cubs record with these such players we'd pry be seeing the worst of his play.

 

His 2003 season is a bit worrisome. The good thing is, he's still on the right side of 30.

 

His reminds me a bit of Derrek Lee* prior to Lee's 2005. He'll strikeout a lot, walk a lot, and probably hit between 25 and 35 homers.

 

*By no means am I saying that Burrell will have the kind of breakout year that Lee had.

[AAApittsburgh]

Factor out his horrible 03, and his career #s are pretty good. Just hope he figures out how to hit away from CBP.

[goonys evil twin]

The downfall with Burrell is that he extremely enigmatic. You never know exactly what you're going to get.

 

Is that really true, or just assumed because of his one off year?

 

From 23-25 he got better every year. He had a bad age 26 season, then rebounded at 27, and was even better at 28. His 2003 really weighs on his career averages. Without it he's probably somewhere around .270/.370/.500, with an OPS+ around 120.

 

Over the next three years I think he's a pretty safe bet to be around those numbers, which are good. But in 07 and 08 he'll be overpaid.

 

My whole Abreu idea sprung from the fact that Bobby and Pat combine to make a large percentage of the Philly total payroll, and the team has not had as much success as they had hoped with those two guys (because they have no pitching).

 

If Pat was a free agent, I'd rather pay him 3/36.5 than sign any of the available players out there. However, he has a full NTC, he's younger than Abreu and is their sole source of RH power. I'm guessing Philly wants to keep Pat and deal Abreu. And I still think that Philly will come off their demands for Abreu once they realize nobody is offering up a pitcher like Zambrano or Prior, and many other teams will already have their payrolls maxed out soon.

[fromthestretch]

I'm guessing Philly wants to keep Pat and deal Abreu. And I still think that Philly will come off their demands for Abreu once they realize nobody is offering up a pitcher like Zambrano or Prior, and many other teams will already have their payrolls maxed out soon.

 

I'm thinking they would rather deal Abreu as well, due to his higher salary and age. If they truly do want to dump salary though, I'd think they would at least listen to some offers for Burrell.

[YearofDaCubs]

Either of them would be a huge improvement for us.

[waffle]

I watch burrell alot as I live in Philly. He has great power, is a bit of a duffer in the OF and goes LONG periods of time between hot streaks.

 

He reminds me somewhat of Sammy, but sammy had a much better eye as a hitter and was obviously much stronger.

 

If Burrell played average, ie as he has over the last few years, cubs fans would NOT like him. Watching him bat and field can be pretty painful.

 

(Not that this should matter) but he also has the personality of a piece of soggy toast.

 

I DO think, however, that the phils need to move someone in the OF, either Burrell, Abreau or micheals. I'd love the cubs to be the recipient. Oh yes, Micheals is not all that, I am confused by the enthusiasm many people show for him.

[anemic offense]

The downfall with Burrell is that he extremely enigmatic. You never know exactly what you're going to get.

 

Is that really true, or just assumed because of his one off year?

 

From 23-25 he got better every year. He had a bad age 26 season, then rebounded at 27, and was even better at 28. His 2003 really weighs on his career averages. Without it he's probably somewhere around .270/.370/.500, with an OPS+ around 120.

 

Over the next three years I think he's a pretty safe bet to be around those numbers, which are good. But in 07 and 08 he'll be overpaid.

 

My whole Abreu idea sprung from the fact that Bobby and Pat combine to make a large percentage of the Philly total payroll, and the team has not had as much success as they had hoped with those two guys (because they have no pitching).

 

If Pat was a free agent, I'd rather pay him 3/36.5 than sign any of the available players out there. However, he has a full NTC, he's younger than Abreu and is their sole source of RH power. I'm guessing Philly wants to keep Pat and deal Abreu. And I still think that Philly will come off their demands for Abreu once they realize nobody is offering up a pitcher like Zambrano or Prior, and many other teams will already have their payrolls maxed out soon.

 

That one year is exactly what I was talking about. Although it hasn't shown to be a recurring problem throughout his career, it HAS GOT TO BE in the back of every GMs mind. We're not just talking about an off year, we're talking about a year that was so bad it made Cpat's '05 look good. Doesnt' that make you shudder just a liiiittttttlle bit??

[anemic offense]

The downfall with Burrell is that he extremely enigmatic. You never know exactly what you're going to get. However, if he could produce on the high end of the spectrum then I wouldn't have a problem with it (it's not going to happen though, because obviously Phillie's not going to get rid of Burrell if they're making Abreu available). But with the Cubs record with these such players we'd pry be seeing the worst of his play.

 

:?: :

 

http://www.baseballreference.com/b/burrepa01.shtml

 

Other than that one season, doesn't look enigmatic to me. I'll take him.

 

He's not truly enigmatic, but that one season has got to make you wonder a littel bit. See the post above.

[fromthestretch]

I watch burrell alot as I live in Philly. He has great power, is a bit of a duffer in the OF and goes LONG periods of time between hot streaks.

 

He reminds me somewhat of Sammy, but sammy had a much better eye as a hitter and was obviously much stronger.

 

Pat Burrell, at age 28, drew 99 walks. Sammy Sosa at age 28 drew 45 walks. In six seasons, Burrell has had five seasons with over 70 walks, including two over 80 and one over 90. The one season he didn't have 70 walks was his rookie season, in which he drew 63. Sammy didn't have a 70-walk season until his 10th year, and he didn't reach the 90 mark until his 12th.

 

Burrell's career batting average is 16 points lower than Sammy's, yet his OBP is 13 points HIGHER than Sammy's.

 

Burrell has a better eye.

 

 

Oh yes, Micheals is not all that, I am confused by the enthusiasm many people show for him.

 

.380 Career OBP. That's a pretty nice number.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

.380 Career OBP. That's a pretty nice number.

 

I sure as hell would have taken the 399 he put up last year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

That one year is exactly what I was talking about. Although it hasn't shown to be a recurring problem throughout his career, it HAS GOT TO BE in the back of every GMs mind. We're not just talking about an off year, we're talking about a year that was so bad it made Cpat's '05 look good. Doesnt' that make you shudder just a liiiittttttlle bit??

 

It wasn't that bad. He had a .713 OPS. While that's horrid for a corner OF, it pales in comparison to Patterson's .592 OPS last year. A 33 point difference in OPS+ is monumental.

[fromthestretch]

That one year is exactly what I was talking about. Although it hasn't shown to be a recurring problem throughout his career, it HAS GOT TO BE in the back of every GMs mind. We're not just talking about an off year, we're talking about a year that was so bad it made Cpat's '05 look good. Doesnt' that make you shudder just a liiiittttttlle bit??

 

 

Burrell's 2003 was better than CPat's 2005.

 

Burrell 2003

OBP: .309

SLG: .404

 

Patterson's 2005

OBP: .254

SLG: .348

 

Number of at-bats was similar.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

That one year is exactly what I was talking about. Although it hasn't shown to be a recurring problem throughout his career, it HAS GOT TO BE in the back of every GMs mind. We're not just talking about an off year, we're talking about a year that was so bad it made Cpat's '05 look good. Doesnt' that make you shudder just a liiiittttttlle bit??

 

 

Burrell's 2003 was better than CPat's 2005.

 

Burrell 2003

OBP: .309

SLG: .404

 

Patterson's 2005

OBP: .254

SLG: .348

 

Number of at-bats was similar.

 

That really speaks volumes as to exactly how bad CPatt was last year because Burrell's 2003 was pretty darn bad.

[goonys evil twin]

We're not just talking about an off year, we're talking about a year that was so bad it made Cpat's '05 look good. Doesnt' that make you shudder just a liiiittttttlle bit??

 

Okay, that's not even close to the truth.

 

Of course it's in the back of your mind. But it's a bit steep to call him enigmatic. People have bad seasons. You'd like more consistency (like you get from Abreu), but only the best players are consistently great throughout their 20s. Look at Damon, he's looking to get something like 5/50 at a later age than Burrell is, and he had an off year at both 27 and 29. I wouldn't consider Burrell ideal. But he's much much better of an option than just about anybody the Cubs are likely to end up with.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

More fun facts. The OPS+ Burrell put up in '03, 89(100 is average), would be a career high for Neifi.

[goonys evil twin]

More fun facts. The OPS+ Burrell put up in '03, 89(100 is average), would be a career high for Neifi.

 

and higher than Juan Pierre's career average.

[snoodmonger]

I'd like Burrell, but I've seen no indications the Cubs have even looked into him. Thus, this thread depresses me.

[RynoRules]

More fun facts. The OPS+ Burrell put up in '03, 89(100 is average), would be a career high for Neifi.

 

and higher than Juan Pierre's career average.

 

PILE ONNNNNNNN!!!!!

 

:wink: :wink: :wink:

[SAMMYWHO]

More fun facts. The OPS+ Burrell put up in '03, 89(100 is average), would be a career high for Neifi.

 

and higher than Juan Pierre's career average.

 

Would they be signed for the same thing? :roll:

[waffle]

I misused a term, when I said Sammy had a better eye at the plate, I truly meant that he has a better HITTER's eye. Burrel gets fooled all the time on out pitches. Sammy (in his prime) used to kill mistakes, he was not simply a fast ball hitter.

 

Burrell looks lost up there alot. He reminds me some of Corey in that regard. He gets fooled alot and looks bad doing it. I think he walks a fair amount because he is 1) pretty patient 2) is very selective about what he swings at (he avoids everything that bends) and 3) gets pitched around (he is not a threat to steal).

 

Trust me, if you got to watch pat the Bat play everyday in Wrigley, you'd start getting very aggrevated very quickly. He is not good defensively, he looks lost up at the plate and he goes through cold streaks that can last months. He also has no fire or personality.

[fromthestretch]

I misused a term, when I said Sammy had a better eye at the plate, I truly meant that he has a better HITTER's eye. Burrel gets fooled all the time on out pitches. Sammy (in his prime) used to kill mistakes, he was not simply a fast ball hitter.

 

Burrell looks lost up there alot. He reminds me some of Corey in that regard. He gets fooled alot and looks bad doing it. I think he walks a fair amount because he is 1) pretty patient 2) is very selective about what he swings at (he avoids everything that bends) and 3) gets pitched around (he is not a threat to steal).

 

Trust me, if you got to watch pat the Bat play everyday in Wrigley, you'd start getting very aggrevated very quickly. He is not good defensively, he looks lost up at the plate and he goes through cold streaks that can last months. He also has no fire or personality.

 

The worst month Burrell had in 2005 was July, when he posted a .265/.375/.480 line. That was his lowest month OPS-wise in 2005. I'm not seeing this extended cold streak you speak of.

 

Yes, in 2004 he had a bad second half. If memory serves, Ichiro has had a couple of those, too.

 

The guy is young, hits for power, and gets on base. He has the arm for right field. He certainly won't win a gold glove or steal bases. As far as his personality, anyone who values charisma over production needs to check their priorities.

 

I'm also curious how an .834 OPS = "lost up at the plate."

 

I'm not proclaiming him to be the savior of the Cubs. However, he's a MUCH better option than any of the free agents, and if available via trade, could probably be had for less than Abreu, Dunn, and possible Huff.