Pick your Rightfielder

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Say NO to Shawn Green. I think you guys have a point. Now that we have Pierre I would not be opposed to upgrading both OF spots with proven power.

 

Interesting that you want proven power, but you also say no to a guy with 303 career HR's...

The simple fact is Shawn Green hasn't been the same player ever since he has had shoulder problems. The past two years he has been a notorious slow starter so it's not interesting at all.

 

Well OK, then I wasn't aware that he had injury problems. I can tolerate an older player, but not an older player with injury problems.

 

I'd therefore have to go for A or B then, with the caveat that I don't want A for too long, and don't want him if he has past history of injury problems. Who are these dudes?

 

He does not have a history of injury problems by any stretch of the imagination. Games played from 1998 - 2005:

158, 153, 162, 161, 158, 160, 157, 158

[jmajew]

I think B is the best option. He is just hitting his prime and getting out of Chavez should help his numbers alot. The fact he is a switch hitter and that he can also play center doesn't hurt either. This way if Pierre gets hurt we already have a quality backup. B would be even better if we can trade Patterson straight up for him, allowing us to keep Walker.

 

Question though: Of all of these options who would cost the least to get?

[St.Paul Cub]

That wouldn't bother me IF the player he was sitting in favor of was productive. The problem with last year, is that Murton sat in favor of Hollandsworth and Hairston. That's different IMO.

 

Unfortunately the Murton platoon could be with a re-signed (at $1million) Burnitz. Sorry to say I could see it happening.

 

I can't see Green getting over his injury problems and think his best years are behind him.

[Jehrico]

If you can't get a dominant RF, the right thing to do is get three new OF and move Murton to a platoon/4th OF role. The guy's going to be 24 all season long; it won't hurt him to not play every single day this season.

 

The Cubs need to get deep enough in the OF so that Mabry (or Bigbie) doesn't get 400+ PA.

 

Green is very good against RHP, but he's weak against LHP.

 

I wouldn't mind playing him with Murton in LF and getting Bradley or Wilkerson to play RF.

 

Green is extremely durable, but he'd probably benefit from some more time off as he moves into his mid-30s.

 

I kind of agree with this. I would maybe try to get a RH and LH OF, and then platoon the two of them with Murton. I like Murton, and I'm happy with him starting, as I am with Cedeno. But when you go with such unguaranteed production as those two, you have to get guaranteed production elsewhere. Now that Pierre is in CF, that position won't make up for any setback from the kids. Knowing that Pierre is a likely fill-in for Cedeno, or even the starting 2B, the Cubs don't have room to screw around in the OF, they need production. I'd go big, or go after platoon guys who can handle either RH or LH pitchers.

 

Floyd's numbers scream platoon (though he's a little expensive for a platoon player). A Floyd/Murton platoon in LF would be cool. I don't know if they have the trade chips to get Floyd and a solid RFer, but that would be nice.

 

I don't want a platoon partner with Murton. With Dusty, that would lead to Murton getting maybe 150-200 ABs this year, and that is a pretty optimistic number.

 

That wouldn't bother me IF the player he was sitting in favor of was productive. The problem with last year, is that Murton sat in favor of Hollandsworth and Hairston. That's different IMO.

 

I would agree, but can you see Hendry going out and getting a top notch LFer after filling the RF gap? If Murton ends up platooning with someone, it'll most likely be another Holla type player. If not, then RF will have a Holla type out there while Murton platoons in left.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Say NO to Shawn Green. I think you guys have a point. Now that we have Pierre I would not be opposed to upgrading both OF spots with proven power.

 

Interesting that you want proven power, but you also say no to a guy with 303 career HR's...

 

Sammy has 588 career HR. Should we bring him back?

 

I'm just trying to point out that career HR might not be the best measurement stick to use.

 

Apples to oranges. Sammy is obviously at the end of his career and showed signs that he would not be able to hit a watermelon. Shawn Green has been extremely consistent over the years. His power numbers have dipped a bit, but he could still be counted on for 20-30 easily.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't want a platoon partner with Murton. With Dusty, that would lead to Murton getting maybe 150-200 ABs this year, and that is a pretty optimistic number.

 

With unimpressive numbers already in CF, likely nothing more than average numbers in RF, and a very questionable middle infield situation, I think they unfortunately have to leave that option out there. Murton is no guarantee to even approach an 800 OPS. He could easily go 750-775. I'd be fine with a $350,000 kid putting up that number in LF, just like I'd be fine with a $350,000 Cedeno putting up 700 at SS. Many of the RF options are risk for sub 800, and Pierre is a lock for sub 800. I'm not willing to risk that across the board mediocrity from your OF, when it's not going to be offset elsewhere. If Walker is traded and they go with Neifi starting, then the problem just increases.

[goonys evil twin]

I would agree, but can you see Hendry going out and getting a top notch LFer after filling the RF gap? If Murton ends up platooning with someone, it'll most likely be another Holla type player. If not, then RF will have a Holla type out there while Murton platoons in left.

 

If he fills it with the type of player he's likely to settle for, he won't have much of an option.

[Derwood]

Answer key?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think B is the best option. He is just hitting his prime and getting out of Chavez should help his numbers alot. The fact he is a switch hitter and that he can also play center doesn't hurt either. This way if Pierre gets hurt we already have a quality backup. B would be even better if we can trade Patterson straight up for him, allowing us to keep Walker.

 

Question though: Of all of these options who would cost the least to get?

 

Here's my rundown on possible costs. (Keep in mind this is just estimation.)

 

A- Probably Todd Walker. Player makes 5 million in 2006.

 

B- Cheapest of the group. Probably a mid range prospect or pair of prospects. Player is arbitration eligible.

 

C- Corey Patterson and possibly a minor league pitcher. Player makes around 10 million. (I'm too lazy to look it up.)

 

D- Jerome Williams and maybe more. Player is arbitration eligible.

 

E- Jerome Williams and more. Player is arbitration eligible.

 

F- Jerome Williams, Corey Patterson + prospect(s). Player is arbitration eligible.

 

G- Only your money. Player is a free agent.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Answer key?

 

Yes please. Let's put an end to this. Somehow I've convinced myself that trading for Shawn Green would be the best thing since velcro.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Say NO to Shawn Green. I think you guys have a point. Now that we have Pierre I would not be opposed to upgrading both OF spots with proven power.

 

Interesting that you want proven power, but you also say no to a guy with 303 career HR's...

 

Sammy has 588 career HR. Should we bring him back?

 

I'm just trying to point out that career HR might not be the best measurement stick to use.

 

Apples to oranges. Sammy is obviously at the end of his career and showed signs that he would not be able to hit a watermelon. Shawn Green has been extremely consistent over the years. His power numbers have dipped a bit, but he could still be counted on for 20-30 easily.

 

Apples to oranges? No, I just stated by example that career HR aren't the best indicator of power going into next season.

 

Green is pretty decent, but I'd like to see us go younger. He will most likely put up around .800-.830 OPS next season. That's not too shabby and will put him middle of the pack in qualified NL RF (behind the likes of Abreu, Giles, Jenkins).

Edited December 7, 2005 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Answer key?

 

Since most have learned the identity of these guys (I did it this way to try to remove some of the emotional feelings for or against players based on preconceived notions about them), I guess I'll identify them.

 

A- Raul Ibanez

B- Milton Bradley

C- Shawn Green

D- Kevin Mench

E- Austin Kearns

F- Brad Wilkerson

G- Juan Encarnacion

[Jehrico]

Answer key?

 

Since most have learned the identity of these guys (I did it this way to try to remove some of the emotional feelings for or against players based on preconceived notions about them), I guess I'll identify them.

 

A- Raul Ibanez

B- Milton Bradley

C- Shawn Green

D- Kevin Mench

E- Austin Kearns

F- Brad Wilkerson

G- Juan Encarnacion

 

I wouldn't mind BWilk, AK, or Bradley. Not interested in anyone else in the group.

 

I surprised (and thankful) that Hendry hasn't displayed at least a moderate interest in Encarnacion.

[JeffH]

E- Austin Kearns

 

Well done!

[hawkeyecub]

I just heard Levine on ESPN 1000 saying that the Cubs are still talking to the Rangers about Soriano and Mench. He says Hendry would like to take care of the outfield situation before leaving the winter meetings if possible.

 

Still talking to the Dodgers about Bradley, probably for Walker.

[Balsa]

I can't see why anyone would like Brad Wilkerson. He's never had less than 145 strikeouts, his average has never been above .268, he hit only 11 home runs last year, he had one good RBI year at 77 and that usually hovers around 60....no way. He's like Adam Dunn without any power and less average.

[goonys evil twin]

I can't see why anyone would like Brad Wilkerson. He's never had less than 145 strikeouts, his average has never been above .268, he hit only 11 home runs last year, he had one good RBI year at 77 and that usually hovers around 60....no way. He's like Adam Dunn without any power and less average.

 

Strikeouts and AVG don't tell me much. RBI from a leadoff hitter are generally low. Put that same guy 5th or 6th and the RBI will increase.

[Jehrico]

I can't see why anyone would like Brad Wilkerson. He's never had less than 145 strikeouts, his average has never been above .268, he hit only 11 home runs last year, he had one good RBI year at 77 and that usually hovers around 60....no way. He's like Adam Dunn without any power and less average.

 

Last year he was hurt and playing in a pitchers park. It was a down year for him, and he still had a pretty good OBP. His numbers would likely spike a little with a move to Wrig. He's guaranteed to get on base at a very good clip (I wouldn't be surprised by a .370 obp out of him if we got him), and he wouldn't cost too much to obtain. I think it's been through the ringer several times on this board that our offensive problems lie with OBP, not our strike out numbers or slugging.

[Balsa]

I can't see why anyone would like Brad Wilkerson. He's never had less than 145 strikeouts, his average has never been above .268, he hit only 11 home runs last year, he had one good RBI year at 77 and that usually hovers around 60....no way. He's like Adam Dunn without any power and less average.

 

Strikeouts and AVG don't tell me much. RBI from a leadoff hitter are generally low. Put that same guy 5th or 6th and the RBI will increase.

 

How would you suggest he gets more RBIs when he strikes out so much and homers so little?

 

But fair enough, I didn't notice he was batting leadoff until just now. But we already have a leadoff hitter. We need a big, proven bat for RF. In my mind, he doesn't qualify for that.

[YearofDaCubs]

I would have liked Bradley and Wilkerson over Pierre at CF, but since we do have Pierre it's time to work on RF and I would still like Bradley for RF.

[goonys evil twin]

I can't see why anyone would like Brad Wilkerson. He's never had less than 145 strikeouts, his average has never been above .268, he hit only 11 home runs last year, he had one good RBI year at 77 and that usually hovers around 60....no way. He's like Adam Dunn without any power and less average.

 

Strikeouts and AVG don't tell me much. RBI from a leadoff hitter are generally low. Put that same guy 5th or 6th and the RBI will increase.

 

How would you suggest he gets more RBIs when he strikes out so much and homers so little?

 

But fair enough, I didn't notice he was batting leadoff until just now. But we already have a leadoff hitter. We need a big, proven bat for RF. In my mind, he doesn't qualify for that.

 

Since when do high strikeout totals equal low RBI totals? I agree that we need a big proven bat. Abreu is close to the last option left. After that you have to settle on Wilkerson or Bradley. After that, the highly questionable Kearns, Huff, Mench group (hopefully with a platoon). Then you get into RF hell.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I can't see why anyone would like Brad Wilkerson. He's never had less than 145 strikeouts, his average has never been above .268, he hit only 11 home runs last year, he had one good RBI year at 77 and that usually hovers around 60....no way. He's like Adam Dunn without any power and less average.

 

I'll try to explain the value in Wilkerson for the umpteenth time.

 

First of all, his batting average is irrelevant to me. He has an uncanny knack for taking a walk and getting on base. His OBP is consistently 100 points higher than his average, so even when his average dips, he still can help you by not making outs.

 

Secondly, when not injured and playing in caverous ballpark, Wilkerson has 30 HR power.

 

Citing his RBI's is foolish. First he's spend many AB's in the lead-off spot. I guess it's his fault the number eight hitter and the pitcher weren't on base ahead of him. Secondly, RBI is probably the most asinine way to value you a hitter in the first place. Finally, I'm sure playing on some weak Montreal teams had a lot to do with his RBI chances.

 

Wilkerson would be a nice option. Is he the best? I don't know. A lot depends on how healthy that shoulder is.

[jmajew]

I am going to assume that the Cubs are going to trade Walker at some point. Probably for Bradley if the Dodgers don't get Soriano. Would it still be possible to trade for Lugo and play him at 2b and play cedeno at short?

 

Pierre

Lugo

Lee

Bradley

Ramirez

Barret

Murton

Cedeno

 

The only reason I"m asking is because I think if we get Bradley by trading Walker we are definitely going to need a new SS or 2b. We do NOT want Nefi getting more than 200 ABs this year.

[YearofDaCubs]

I can't see why anyone would like Brad Wilkerson. He's never had less than 145 strikeouts, his average has never been above .268, he hit only 11 home runs last year, he had one good RBI year at 77 and that usually hovers around 60....no way. He's like Adam Dunn without any power and less average.

 

I'll try to explain the value in Wilkerson for the umpteenth time.

 

First of all, his batting average is irrelevant to me. He has an uncanny knack for taking a walk and getting on base. His OBP is consistently 100 points higher than his average, so even when his average dips, he still can help you by not making outs.

 

Secondly, when not injured and playing in caverous ballpark, Wilkerson has 30 HR power.

 

Citing his RBI's is foolish. First he's spend many AB's in the lead-off spot. I guess it's his fault the number eight hitter and the pitcher weren't on base ahead of him. Secondly, RBI is probably the most asinine way to value you a hitter in the first place. Finally, I'm sure playing on some weak Montreal teams had a lot to do with his RBI chances.

 

Wilkerson would be a nice option. Is he the best? I don't know. A lot depends on how healthy that shoulder is.

Can you imagine acquiring Wilkerson and Bradley for the corner OF spots? That would be nice.

[Balsa]

First of all, his batting average is irrelevant to me. He has an uncanny knack for taking a walk and getting on base. His OBP is consistently 100 points higher than his average, so even when his average dips, he still can help you by not making outs.

 

Secondly, when not injured and playing in caverous ballpark, Wilkerson has 30 HR power.

 

So when he's not batting leadoff and not in a big ballpark, he'll get homeruns? But he's only batted 29 times out of leadoff in four years.

 

Plus, his homerun totals over the last four years are, 11, 32, 19, 20. That doesn't speak 30 homeruns a year to me.

 

His OBP% is good. But we already have a leadoff man. Where would you bat him in the lineup? 2nd? That would be some awesome OBP in the top of the lineup, but do you think that leaves enough pop in the middle?