Cubs Acquire Juan Pierre

[Kingmanarama]

Okay, aside from batting average, which isn't one of "my favorite categories", triples, and the aforementioned SB, find something that Pierre does better than Wilkerson. OBP, SLG, HR, 2B, BB, defense, you name it. Wilkerson's better.

 

So, is the consensus that Wilkerson is available, right now, for less than what Hendry gave up for Pierre? Or could Wilkerson have been had, right now, for the same 3 players? Because if that's true, I would have preferred him.

 

But I doubt it's true. It seems very difficult to complete a trade with the Nats right now, since they don't have a budget or an ownership group, and their GM is interviewing for other jobs. So if you can't move on Wilkerson right now, and you know the Rangers, Yankees, Red Sox, and a few other teams are in the CF market, I think Hendry made a reasonable, defensible move with Pierre. I think timing was a big factor, since the Cubs clearly have other positions to fill.

 

Also, is there any reason to think you can get Michaels from Philly with ease? Aren't they shopping Abreu because they have Michaels and Rowand? It seems like they're going to exhaust their options with an Abreu-for-ace-pitcher deal before looking to deal Michaels for prospects.

[DesMoinesCub]

I've come to the fact that some people hate Pierre and point to his CS, low OBP last year, lack of power, etc.

 

I've also come to the fact that some people are not going to be happy unless the Cubs get "their" guy.

 

I don't get how people argue that some people are given a free year of being below average (Wilkerson last year), but Pierre's below avg season gets brought up again and again. I just don't think Pierre is getting a fair shake with all of us.

 

That being said, do I think Hendry overpaid...absolutely.

 

Did Hendry have to over pay...probably (if 5-6 teams were after Pierre, then he had to)

 

Do I like Wilkerson...I would be stupid if I didn't like a guy that got on base a lot.

 

What if Hendry traded the same three guys for Wilkerson? Would people bring up the fact that he K'd a lot, would people bring up his below avg. season last year? I just think a lot of us are dismissing Wilkerson's year last year, but holding over Pierre's head.

 

Just my thoughts, rip away.

[Blueheart05]

George Ofman says that Hendry has plans to sign Pierre to a long term deal.

 

Bruce Levine says the Cubs are still in discussions with the Rangers for Kevin Mench

 

I realize it's Offman, but... why is it that everytime the Cubs trade for a player they always try and immediately sign him to a long term deal?

 

If you don't like that practice, you'll probably get your wish if and when the Cubs acquire Bradley.

 

LOL great point.

[Hector Villanuevas Pants]

Quote:

"Why do I have to be happy with the Cubs for settling for mediocrity? As a

long time Cubs fan, I want to see them win a World Series. I don't feel like excusing them for sucking just because they've done it so often in the past."

 

Didn't the Marlins win the WS with Pierre as their leadoff guy?

[CubinNY]

I've come to the fact that some people hate Pierre and point to his CS, low OBP last year, lack of power, etc.

 

I've also come to the fact that some people are not going to be happy unless the Cubs get "their" guy.

 

I don't get how people argue that some people are given a free year of being below average (Wilkerson last year), but Pierre's below avg season gets brought up again and again. I just don't think Pierre is getting a fair shake with all of us.

 

That being said, do I think Hendry overpaid...absolutely.

 

Did Hendry have to over pay...probably (if 5-6 teams were after Pierre, then he had to)

 

Do I like Wilkerson...I would be stupid if I didn't like a guy that got on base a lot.

 

What if Hendry traded the same three guys for Wilkerson? Would people bring up the fact that he K'd a lot, would people bring up his below avg. season last year? I just think a lot of us are dismissing Wilkerson's year last year, but holding over Pierre's head.

 

Just my thoughts, rip away.

 

One reason for Wilk> Slappy is that

 

Wilk was injured

Wilk moved to a bigger park

 

Slappy had no excuse

 

However, I expect Slappy to move toward his career norms in Wrigley. I would bet though that his slugging is going to decrease, but then again slg. is not that important from the Juan hole.

 

Slappy isn't a terrible player but IMO not who the Cubs need. But he was available and Hendry got him (overpayed too). So I think one has to give Hendry that. He got his man.

 

The story is not done yet. If Hendry can get some top notch LF and RFers all is well.

[Andy]

Quote:

"Why do I have to be happy with the Cubs for settling for mediocrity? As a

long time Cubs fan, I want to see them win a World Series. I don't feel like excusing them for sucking just because they've done it so often in the past."

 

Didn't the Marlins win the WS with Pierre as their leadoff guy?

They also had DLee in the middle of the order. All we have to do now is trade for Beckett, Castillo, Burnett, Willis, Conine, Cabrera, etc. and we will have a WORLD SERIES LINEUP!!!!

[DesMoinesCub]

Very well put...I am glad CubinNYC you didn't take that as a dig at you. I am just wondering why so many people dislike "Slappy" but so many are for Wilk.

 

Like I said, did I like Wilk...yes, but I don't think Pierre is going to be a big problem like CF and the "Juan Hole" was for us last year.

 

The other thing is, other people are talking about better options...how do we know those options were available to the Cubs without having to give up a ton in return. I think there are better players out ther then Pierre, but I don't know how many of them the Cubs could have gotten.

 

I think this solves one of the problem areas, and the Cubs know they need to fill a couple other holes (SS and RF). I also don't think SS should be the priority, because TWalk, but we'll see.

[8-8-88]

Batting average and strikeouts are two of the worst ways to compare player production. And the stolen bases are not that valuable when you get caught as often as Pierre.

 

Why do I have to be happy with the Cubs for settling for mediocrity? As a long time Cubs fan, I want to see them win a World Series. I don't feel like excusing them for sucking just because they've done it so often in the past.

 

BA and K's are just questions I have about Wilks game. How would trading for Wilkerson not be settling for mediocrity? You make it sound like every move the Cubs make should be "knock your socks off" big. How many big moves did the Sox make last year? Last time i checked they won the world series.

 

And, last I checked, Pierre was injured last year as well. Why isn't he getting any breaks like wilkerson?

 

Like I said, I have no problem with either player. I do like Pierre better because he has speed and can alter the oppositions game more then wilkerson can by reputation alone. But if the cubs were to get wilkerson, I wouldn't have any problems with it.

[Gunned]

I've come to the fact that some people hate Pierre and point to his CS, low OBP last year, lack of power, etc.

 

I've also come to the fact that some people are not going to be happy unless the Cubs get "their" guy.

 

I don't get how people argue that some people are given a free year of being below average (Wilkerson last year), but Pierre's below avg season gets brought up again and again. I just don't think Pierre is getting a fair shake with all of us.

 

That being said, do I think Hendry overpaid...absolutely.

 

Did Hendry have to over pay...probably (if 5-6 teams were after Pierre, then he had to)

 

Do I like Wilkerson...I would be stupid if I didn't like a guy that got on base a lot.

 

What if Hendry traded the same three guys for Wilkerson? Would people bring up the fact that he K'd a lot, would people bring up his below avg. season last year? I just think a lot of us are dismissing Wilkerson's year last year, but holding over Pierre's head.

 

Just my thoughts, rip away.

 

One reason for Wilk> Slappy is that

 

Wilk was injured

Wilk moved to a bigger park

 

Slappy had no excuse

 

 

"Slappy" was injured for the first two months or so of last year. His second half OBP was about 30 points higher, once he was healthy. His SB success rate was also much better (77 percent).

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Found this on BP, I don't know if it's been posted...

 

The Cubs ended the Corey Patterson era by trading three young pitchers to the Marlins for Juan Pierre. The Cubs, who wasted big power years by Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez by having brutal OBPs in the top two lineup spots, fix that problem with a player who should be good for a .340-.350 OBP. Pierre’s off year in ’05 was largely the result of a drop in batting average, to a career-low .276. Just 28, he should get some of that back, making him a viable leadoff hitter.

The Cubs did well to acquire Pierre for three arms, but I should mention that a lot of people here in Dallas are high on Ricky Nolasco, probably the least known of the trio. Nolasco, a fourth-round pick in 2001, has been effective at virtually every stop along the way in his career, the one exception being a brief Triple-A stop in ’04. At Double-A West Tenn last year, he struck out 173 and walked just 46 in 161 2/3 innings. One scouting report--not the Cubs’ or Marlins’--pegged him as a “solid major-league starter,” a 55 on the 20-80 scouting scale.

 

From business and marketing standpoints, the Marlins’ fire sale is difficult to swallow. The execution of that plan, however, has given them a large stockpile of pitchers, and as we’ve often said, the way have two major-league pitchers is to start with 20 minor-league ones. The Fish have added the kind of quantity that increases their odds of producing some legitimate starters over the next couple of seasons.

 

 

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4647

[goonys evil twin]

You make it sound like every move the Cubs make should be "knock your socks off" big. How many big moves did the Sox make last year? Last time i checked they won the world series.

 

I was hoping for one big acquisition and a slew of role players. Now it doesn't look they will add any difference makers.

 

Is that what we're going to do every year? Just look at the previous World Series champ and make moves based off them? Boston won the year before, seems to me they made some big moves. When Florida won they made some pretty big moves. The worst thing that could have happened to Cubs fans is the White Sox victory. Not because our neighbors to the south are so annoying, but because the theories about "how" they won are making people delirious when it comes to possible Cubs moves. You know they also bidded on a good Japanese players, something the Cubs have shown no interest in, and they relied on an unproven crazy kid to be their closer down the stretch, something the Cubs would never do. They went out and acquired multiple solid veteran starting pitchers to go along with their core group of youngsters, something the Cubs aren't doing.

[AC000000]

Slappy isn't a terrible player but IMO not who the Cubs need. But he was available and Hendry got him (overpayed too). So I think one has to give Hendry that. He got his man.

 

The Cubs ranked 2nd in HR and SLG last year. They were 13th in SB and 11th in OBP. Despite Derrek Lee having a phenomenal season, he finished with a relatively low number of RBI's - only 107. This can most easily be attributed to a lack of production from the hitters in front of him.

 

Based on that information, I'd say that the Cubs are definitely set in the power department. What they need is a solid leadoff man and #2 hitter, yet many of you are diminishing the importance of a solid leadoff man. After watching Derrek Lee for an entire season, I don't know how any of you can say that. In addition to a good leadoff man, the Cubs need hitters with good OBP and speed to steal bases.

 

Which player - Pierre or Wilerson - fits what the Cubs need more? Wilkerson has a marginally better OBP. Pierre had a down year in this category last year, but his career OBP is only 10 points lower than Wilkersons. I believe he more than makes up for this by having a career average that is 50 points higher than Wilkerson's. And nobody is going to debate that Pierre is a better baserunner. It's not even close. Pierre is also by far a better leadoff man.

 

Maybe you could make the argument that Wilkerson is an all-around better player than Pierre, but there is no doubt that Pierre is a better fit for this Cubs team. Add that to the fact that the Marlins were desperate to unload players while the Expos are only willing to trade Wilkerson if it will improve the team, and it is clear that Pierre was a better option for the Cubs to trade for. We probably would have had to give up even more for Wilkerson, a player of roughly equal but a worse fit for our club.

 

I look forward to watching DLee and ARam drive in run after run as Pierre creates havoc on the basepaths. The Nats can have Wilkerson and his 8 extra home runs - most likely solo shots. Pierre will create way more than that with his speed.

[Ram1380]

Slappy isn't a terrible player but IMO not who the Cubs need. But he was available and Hendry got him (overpayed too). So I think one has to give Hendry that. He got his man.

 

The Cubs ranked 2nd in HR and SLG last year. They were 13th in SB and 11th in OBP. Despite Derrek Lee having a phenomenal season, he finished with a relatively low number of RBI's - only 107. This can most easily be attributed to a lack of production from the hitters in front of him.

 

Based on that information, I'd say that the Cubs are definitely set in the power department. What they need is a solid leadoff man and #2 hitter, yet many of you are diminishing the importance of a solid leadoff man. After watching Derrek Lee for an entire season, I don't know how any of you can say that. In addition to a good leadoff man, the Cubs need hitters with good OBP and speed to steal bases.

 

Which player - Pierre or Wilerson - fits what the Cubs need more? Wilkerson has a marginally better OBP. Pierre had a down year in this category last year, but his career OBP is only 10 points lower than Wilkersons. I believe he more than makes up for this by having a career average that is 50 points higher than Wilkerson's. And nobody is going to debate that Pierre is a better baserunner. It's not even close. Pierre is also by far a better leadoff man.

 

Maybe you could make the argument that Wilkerson is an all-around better player than Pierre, but there is no doubt that Pierre is a better fit for this Cubs team. Add that to the fact that the Marlins were desperate to unload players while the Expos are only willing to trade Wilkerson if it will improve the team, and it is clear that Pierre was a better option for the Cubs to trade for. We probably would have had to give up even more for Wilkerson, a player of roughly equal but a worse fit for our club.

 

I look forward to watching DLee and ARam drive in run after run as Pierre creates havoc on the basepaths. The Nats can have Wilkerson and his 8 extra home runs - most likely solo shots. Pierre will create way more than that with his speed.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. I completely agree.

[CubinNY]

The Cubs have a solid leadoff man

 

His name is Todd Walker

 

Hendry is trying to trade him as we speak

 

The Cubs need an upgrade in CF, Slappy is an upgarde

 

I am happy they have upgraded but I believe they could have done better.

 

The Cubs need a bunch of solid baseball players not a leadoff hitter, a 2 hole hitter, etc..

 

Because people confuse speed with being a good leadoff hitter people will like Slappy. I don't.

[Drew Doughty]

I don't think Wilkerson would have cost much more, if at all more. In any case, how is a better hitter not a better fit for the team?

[CubinNY]

I don't think Wilkerson would have cost much more, if at all more. In any case, how is a better hitter not a better fit for the team?

 

wow I completely agree.

[Illini Iceman]

The Cubs have a solid leadoff man

 

His name is Todd Walker

 

Hendry is trying to trade him as we speak

 

The Cubs need an upgrade in CF, Slappy is an upgarde

 

I am happy they have upgraded but I believe they could have done better.

 

The Cubs need a bunch of solid baseball players not a leadoff hitter, a 2 hole hitter, etc..

 

Because people confuse speed with being a good leadoff hitter people will like Slappy. I don't.

 

Is there some point to continuing to call him "Slappy" over and over in each post you make?

 

Try the cubs.com message board, the 12 year olds that post over there will probably think it is hilarious.

[Andy]

I agree. What's the over/under on days until Tim adds that to the list of banned derisive nicknames?

[CubinNY]

The Cubs have a solid leadoff man

 

His name is Todd Walker

 

Hendry is trying to trade him as we speak

 

The Cubs need an upgrade in CF, Slappy is an upgarde

 

I am happy they have upgraded but I believe they could have done better.

 

The Cubs need a bunch of solid baseball players not a leadoff hitter, a 2 hole hitter, etc..

 

Because people confuse speed with being a good leadoff hitter people will like Slappy. I don't.

 

Is there some point to continuing to call him "Slappy" over and over in each post you make?

 

Try the cubs.com message board, the 12 year olds that post over there will probably think it is hilarious.

 

I call him slappy b/c I can't remember if is last name has two r's or one and I think it describes his game well. It is not a slight in any way. It is like calling a HR hitter a bomber.

 

You are a premium member, if you don't like to read my posts put me on ignore.

 

It is just that easy.

 

I like it here.

Edited December 8, 2005 by CubinNY

[entbird79]

The Cubs have a solid leadoff man

 

His name is Todd Walker

 

Hendry is trying to trade him as we speak

 

The Cubs need an upgrade in CF, Slappy is an upgarde

 

I am happy they have upgraded but I believe they could have done better.

 

The Cubs need a bunch of solid baseball players not a leadoff hitter, a 2 hole hitter, etc..

 

Because people confuse speed with being a good leadoff hitter people will like Slappy. I don't.

 

Is there some point to continuing to call him "Slappy" over and over in each post you make?

 

Try the cubs.com message board, the 12 year olds that post over there will probably think it is hilarious.

 

wow, I completely agree...

[AC000000]

I don't think Wilkerson would have cost much more, if at all more. In any case, how is a better hitter not a better fit for the team?

By that logic we should bat Derrek Lee first. He is the best hitter, so it should be best for the team if he gets the most at-bats. Just because one hitter is better than another, does not mean he will benefit the team more. Pierre has assets that are much more valuable to the Cubs than Wilkerson's.

[Kingmanarama]

I don't think Wilkerson would have cost much more, if at all more. In any case, how is a better hitter not a better fit for the team?

 

I'd like to mention, again, that it seems extremely difficult for the Nats to trade a player from their Major League roster while they are without an owner and their GM has been interviewing for other jobs. I can't believe Wilkerson would be moved during the winter meetings unless it was a simply overwhelming offer.

 

Given the competition for Pierre, and the apparent fact that the Marlins intended to move him soon, waiting for the Nats (or the Phillies, with Michaels) carried significant risk.

[Drew Doughty]

I don't think Wilkerson would have cost much more, if at all more. In any case, how is a better hitter not a better fit for the team?

By that logic we should bat Derrek Lee first. He is the best hitter, so it should be best for the team if he gets the most at-bats. Just because one hitter is better than another, does not mean he will benefit the team more. Pierre has assets that are much more valuable to the Cubs than Wilkerson's.

 

What are you talking about? That's not what I said at all. If you could get a better hitter in Wilkerson at the same price (I'm not saying you can, just saying IF you could) why not do it? Saying Pierre is a better fit over a better hitter is absurd.

 

One being better than the other is debatable, but saying that a better hitter isn't a better fit is just dumb.

[katway]

...If you could get a better hitter in Wilkerson...

 

I saw Wilkerson play a lot last year at Nationals games and I'd be hard pressed to say he is a better hitter than too many people other than Christian Guzman. One could say he had a bad year and will rebound, but he he made Preston Wilson look good last year.

[cubbyvirus00]

Theres a Juan Pierre conference call on MLB.com if anyones interested. From what he said, and what he sounds like, he appears to be a good fit in Chicago.

 

Personally I'm not going to nitpick this move. Hendry's not going to wait all day on a National and Philly team, that doesen't know if they looking to win in 06, or not.

 

The Nationals really don't even have an owner. Hendry wanted his leadoff man quickly, so he can shop for an outfielder, and a starting pitcher.

 

Juan Pierre's intangible's, his experience, and his relationship with somebody like DLee are more valuable, then the marginal "better" hitting that Wilkerson brings.