Cubs Acquire Juan Pierre

[8-8-88]

Why does everyone on this board seem to be sweating Wilkerson? The guys numbers are attrochious at best. Regardless, I like Pierre and think it's a good trade. I really don't care that we gave up Nolasco and Pinto, they would have never played for the Cubs anyways.

[badger1679666666]

Why do people think Nolasco and Pinto are world beaters?

 

Their ceilings are #3 and #4 starters. Those are a dime a dozen.

 

Sure we should have gotten more for them, but when everyone knows our weaknesses they are going to get more from us than we will for them.

 

Pierre will be productive, we gave up too much for a one-year rental, but it's not like these guys are Clemens and Willis.

 

Is it just hardcore Cubs fans that overvalue EVERY SINGLE prospect in the organization, or does every teams hardcore fanbase do it? It seems like if you talk to NSBB fans, every single West Tenn player is a bonafide stud.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why does everyone on this board seem to be sweating Wilkerson? The guys numbers are attrochious at best. Regardless, I like Pierre and think it's a good trade. I really don't care that we gave up Nolasco and Pinto, they would have never played for the Cubs anyways.

 

What part of Wilkerson's numbers are "atrocious at best"? He's superior to Pierre in every single facet of the game sans stolen bases.

[brfahey]

Why do people think Nolasco and Pinto are world beaters?

 

Their ceilings are #3 and #4 starters. Those are a dime a dozen.

 

Sure we should have gotten more for them, but when everyone knows our weaknesses they are going to get more from us than we will for them.

 

Pierre will be productive, we gave up too much for a one-year rental, but it's not like these guys are Clemens and Willis.

 

Is it just hardcore Cubs fans that overvalue EVERY SINGLE prospect in the organization, or does every teams hardcore fanbase do it? It seems like if you talk to NSBB fans, every single West Tenn player is a bonafide stud.

 

Boy do I agree with much of that post. Were those guys considered absolutely no-miss? If not, they are just prospects. For every one Dontrelle Wilis, there are 100 Lance Dicksons (anyone remember that name?). You know what the big leaguer will give you and you take a chance. It makes the team better without weakening it: it's a good deal.

[brfahey]

Why does everyone on this board seem to be sweating Wilkerson? The guys numbers are attrochious at best. Regardless, I like Pierre and think it's a good trade. I really don't care that we gave up Nolasco and Pinto, they would have never played for the Cubs anyways.

 

What part of Wilkerson's numbers are "atrocious at best"? He's superior to Pierre in every single facet of the game sans stolen bases.

 

Is that you opinion or do the numbers (and not just your favorite categories) bear that out?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why do people think Nolasco and Pinto are world beaters?

 

Their ceilings are #3 and #4 starters. Those are a dime a dozen.

 

Sure we should have gotten more for them, but when everyone knows our weaknesses they are going to get more from us than we will for them.

 

Pierre will be productive, we gave up too much for a one-year rental, but it's not like these guys are Clemens and Willis.

 

Is it just hardcore Cubs fans that overvalue EVERY SINGLE prospect in the organization, or does every teams hardcore fanbase do it? It seems like if you talk to NSBB fans, every single West Tenn player is a bonafide stud.

 

They were both rated in the top-20 of the absolutely loaded Southern league. They were 2-3 in ERA for the Southern league. They both have pretty good stuff, Pinto has a little better stuff, Nolasco has great control. Everyone talks about Chad Billingsley of LA like he's an amazing prospect, and Pinto and Nolasco both put up similar if not better numbers at the same level(albeit a year older than Billingsley). There's no justification for saying that they "never would've made our rotation". They were 2 of our best pitching prospects, and aside from Guzman, they were the closest to the Majors with Wood and Maddux's contracts expiring.

[Dr. Cub]

Why does everyone on this board seem to be sweating Wilkerson? The guys numbers are attrochious at best. Regardless, I like Pierre and think it's a good trade. I really don't care that we gave up Nolasco and Pinto, they would have never played for the Cubs anyways.

 

So a .305/.355/.730 career line excites you, but a .256/.365/.813 line is atrocious? Can you explain how you come to that conclusion?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why does everyone on this board seem to be sweating Wilkerson? The guys numbers are attrochious at best. Regardless, I like Pierre and think it's a good trade. I really don't care that we gave up Nolasco and Pinto, they would have never played for the Cubs anyways.

 

What part of Wilkerson's numbers are "atrocious at best"? He's superior to Pierre in every single facet of the game sans stolen bases.

 

Is that you opinion or do the numbers (and not just your favorite categories) bear that out?

 

Okay, aside from batting average, which isn't one of "my favorite categories", triples, and the aforementioned SB, find something that Pierre does better than Wilkerson. OBP, SLG, HR, 2B, BB, defense, you name it. Wilkerson's better.

[badger1679666666]

Why do people think Nolasco and Pinto are world beaters?

 

Their ceilings are #3 and #4 starters. Those are a dime a dozen.

 

Sure we should have gotten more for them, but when everyone knows our weaknesses they are going to get more from us than we will for them.

 

Pierre will be productive, we gave up too much for a one-year rental, but it's not like these guys are Clemens and Willis.

 

Is it just hardcore Cubs fans that overvalue EVERY SINGLE prospect in the organization, or does every teams hardcore fanbase do it? It seems like if you talk to NSBB fans, every single West Tenn player is a bonafide stud.

 

They were both rated in the top-20 of the absolutely loaded Southern league. They were 2-3 in ERA for the Southern league. They both have pretty good stuff, Pinto has a little better stuff, Nolasco has great control. Everyone talks about Chad Billingsley of LA like he's an amazing prospect, and Pinto and Nolasco both put up similar if not better numbers at the same level(albeit a year older than Billingsley). There's no justification for saying that they "never would've made our rotation". They were 2 of our best pitching prospects, and aside from Guzman, they were the closest to the Majors with Wood and Maddux's contracts expiring.

 

I understand their performance at West Tenn, but almost all projections have them as #3 and #4 starters for their CEILINGS. IF that's the highest they are projected to go, we aren't really losing all that much and we're improving, albeit, only for a year a position that we were DREADFUL at last year.

[brfahey]

Why does everyone on this board seem to be sweating Wilkerson? The guys numbers are attrochious at best. Regardless, I like Pierre and think it's a good trade. I really don't care that we gave up Nolasco and Pinto, they would have never played for the Cubs anyways.

 

What part of Wilkerson's numbers are "atrocious at best"? He's superior to Pierre in every single facet of the game sans stolen bases.

 

Is that you opinion or do the numbers (and not just your favorite categories) bear that out?

 

Okay, aside from batting average, which isn't one of "my favorite categories", triples, and the aforementioned SB, find something that Pierre does better than Wilkerson. OBP, SLG, HR, 2B, BB, defense, you name it. Wilkerson's better.

 

I wasn't issuing a challenge, just trying to determine if your statement was factually correct, which it apparently was not by your own admission. So W is better than Pierre because he has better OBP, SLG, HR and BB numbers. Burnitz has better HR and SLG numbers and only slightly worse OBP number than W. Is Burnitz better than W. I don't know. What do you think? And remember, a walk is only as good as a single, not all hits.

[CubinNY]

I understand their performance at West Tenn, but almost all projections have them as #3 and #4 starters for their CEILINGS. IF that's the highest they are projected to go, we aren't really losing all that much and we're improving, albeit, only for a year a position that we were DREADFUL at last year.

 

Ceiling is scoutspeak for "my best guess" it means absolutely squat.

 

Slappy is not worth that much. But b/c Hendry overvalues a "leadoff batter" over a "baseball player" he is our Slappy.

 

Good luck next year Slappy. I'll be rooting for you.

[Careless]

Why does everyone on this board seem to be sweating Wilkerson? The guys numbers are attrochious at best. Regardless, I like Pierre and think it's a good trade. I really don't care that we gave up Nolasco and Pinto, they would have never played for the Cubs anyways.

 

What part of Wilkerson's numbers are "atrocious at best"? He's superior to Pierre in every single facet of the game sans stolen bases.

 

Is that you opinion or do the numbers (and not just your favorite categories) bear that out?

 

Okay, aside from batting average, which isn't one of "my favorite categories", triples, and the aforementioned SB, find something that Pierre does better than Wilkerson. OBP, SLG, HR, 2B, BB, defense, you name it. Wilkerson's better.

 

I wasn't issuing a challenge, just trying to determine if your statement was factually correct, which it apparently was not by your own admission. So W is better than Pierre because he has better OBP, SLG, HR and BB numbers. Burnitz has better HR and SLG numbers and only slightly worse OBP number than W. Is Burnitz better than W. I don't know. What do you think? And remember, a walk is only as good as a single, not all hits.

Wilkerson has a higher career: BA, OBP, SLG than burnitz hit last year. Wilkerson is getting into his prime. burnitz is getting old. Wilkerson can play CF. Burnitz can't

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why does everyone on this board seem to be sweating Wilkerson? The guys numbers are attrochious at best. Regardless, I like Pierre and think it's a good trade. I really don't care that we gave up Nolasco and Pinto, they would have never played for the Cubs anyways.

 

What part of Wilkerson's numbers are "atrocious at best"? He's superior to Pierre in every single facet of the game sans stolen bases.

 

Is that you opinion or do the numbers (and not just your favorite categories) bear that out?

 

Okay, aside from batting average, which isn't one of "my favorite categories", triples, and the aforementioned SB, find something that Pierre does better than Wilkerson. OBP, SLG, HR, 2B, BB, defense, you name it. Wilkerson's better.

 

I wasn't issuing a challenge, just trying to determine if your statement was factually correct, which it apparently was not by your own admission. So W is better than Pierre because he has better OBP, SLG, HR and BB numbers. Burnitz has better HR and SLG numbers and only slightly worse OBP number than W. Is Burnitz better than W. I don't know. What do you think? And remember, a walk is only as good as a single, not all hits.

 

Last year was also a down year for Wilkerson, as he was hampered by an injury and playing in RFK. But the 30 point gap in OBP is a minimum for the improvement most likely, and that in itself is a big deal. Also, like I said before, Wilkerson was hampered last season, and his numbers in the three years prior are vastly superior to Burnitz.

[Blueheart05]

George Ofman says that Hendry has plans to sign Pierre to a long term deal.

 

Bruce Levine says the Cubs are still in discussions with the Rangers for Kevin Mench

[JeffH]

George Ofman says that Hendry has plans to sign Pierre to a long term deal.

 

Bruce Levine says the Cubs are still in discussions with the Rangers for Kevin Mench

 

If the Cubs acquire Mench and send him, Hill, and Gallagher to the A's for Zito, I won't ask for anything this Christmas.

 

ZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZitoZito

[8-8-88]

I've got no problem with Wilkerson. I'm just extremely curious how a career .256 hitter that strikes out 150 times a year is that much better then a career .305 hitter that steals a lot more bases and has only struck out 211 times in 845 games?

 

When it comes down to it, just be happy that the Cubs finally have a legit, and good, leadoff hitter.

 

What's the worst that's gonna happen? Pierre sucks, the Cubs bring up Pie, and the Cubs don't win the world series, again.

[JeffH]

A healthy Wilkerson is a terrific player.

 

Assuming he hasn't been on steroids all these years.

[Mizzou]

George Ofman says that Hendry has plans to sign Pierre to a long term deal.

 

Bruce Levine says the Cubs are still in discussions with the Rangers for Kevin Mench

 

I realize it's Offman, but... why is it that everytime the Cubs trade for a player they always try and immediately sign him to a long term deal?

[Sarcastic]

I've got no problem with Wilkerson. I'm just extremely curious how a career .256 hitter that strikes out 150 times a year is that much better then a career .305 hitter that steals a lot more bases and has only struck out 211 times in 845 games?

 

When it comes down to it, just be happy that the Cubs finally have a legit, and good, leadoff hitter.

 

What's the worst that's gonna happen? Pierre sucks, the Cubs bring up Pie, and the Cubs don't win the world series, again.

 

Wilkerson is better by virtue of his OBP and SLG. Still, Pierre should do fine as a leadoff hitter.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

A healthy Wilkerson is a terrific player.

 

Assuming he hasn't been on steroids all these years.

 

Like I said before, his IsoP is in tune with his college and minor league numbers. Considering that the steroid policy is much tougher in the minors, and his down year also coincided with him having an injury and playing half his games at RFK, I don't think that's the case with Brad.

[JeffH]

George Ofman says that Hendry has plans to sign Pierre to a long term deal.

 

Bruce Levine says the Cubs are still in discussions with the Rangers for Kevin Mench

 

I realize it's Offman, but... why is it that everytime the Cubs trade for a player they always try and immediately sign him to a long term deal?

 

If you don't like that practice, you'll probably get your wish if and when the Cubs acquire Bradley.

[E.J.]

George Ofman says that Hendry has plans to sign Pierre to a long term deal.

 

Bruce Levine says the Cubs are still in discussions with the Rangers for Kevin Mench

 

I realize it's Offman, but... why is it that everytime the Cubs trade for a player they always try and immediately sign him to a long term deal?

 

Maybe Pie is on the way to Philly or Cincy for Abreu or Dunn...

 

[goonys evil twin]

I've got no problem with Wilkerson. I'm just extremely curious how a career .256 hitter that strikes out 150 times a year is that much better then a career .305 hitter that steals a lot more bases and has only struck out 211 times in 845 games?

 

When it comes down to it, just be happy that the Cubs finally have a legit, and good, leadoff hitter.

 

What's the worst that's gonna happen? Pierre sucks, the Cubs bring up Pie, and the Cubs don't win the world series, again.

 

Batting average and strikeouts are two of the worst ways to compare player production. And the stolen bases are not that valuable when you get caught as often as Pierre.

 

Why do I have to be happy with the Cubs for settling for mediocrity? As a long time Cubs fan, I want to see them win a World Series. I don't feel like excusing them for sucking just because they've done it so often in the past.

[Dr. Cub]

A healthy Wilkerson is a terrific player.

 

Assuming he hasn't been on steroids all these years.

 

As much as I like Brad, I have to admit I have a slight concern over this issue.

[Andy]

George Ofman says that Hendry has plans to sign Pierre to a long term deal.

 

Bruce Levine says the Cubs are still in discussions with the Rangers for Kevin Mench

 

I realize it's Offman, but... why is it that everytime the Cubs trade for a player they always try and immediately sign him to a long term deal?

The only time I can remember this happening was DLee...