jtownie

this probably deserves it's own thread but since the discussion is on Cedeno did anyone notice in this article from cubs.com that Cedeno apparently played 2nd and SS? http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060106&content_id=1291937&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

I realize I am looking at it from my perspective. We really should look at it from Eric's. 1) Corey whined about not being promoted when he was performing in a mediocre way at AAA. There is no way he should be complaining about this although I would say it was the number one way he was mistreated. If Eric is concerned about this, he should request to meet with Fleita and discuss the organization's plans. Being older than Corey was, Eric should have a distinct advantage in maturity and perspective. 2) Corey should have just played as well as he could. Had he performed better, no one would have brought these things up. Overall, the Cubs are wrong here and again show their ignorance about baseball. Very disturbing. 3) See 2. Shouldn't have mattered to Corey. 4) He embarassed himself. I don't see how being sent down should be construed as mistreatment. Eric should be able to see that Corey wasn't getting it done. The mistake was bringing him back. 5) This isn't true. 6) Baseball is a business. He should be thankful because he will make far more money as a result of this than he would have if he was non-tendered. Eric Patterson will be fine. Trust me. He's got his own career to worry about. yeah, Julia Roberts doesn't criticize the film industry because she became a high-powered superstar and her brother didn't! a bad analogy has been written! My work is done here. In all seriousness, I would think EPatt might be somewhat frustrated with the organization but at the same time he has to see that his brother has to take on AT LEAST half the responsibility of not succeeding thus far in his career. Plus he still has a goal of making it to the bigs. Once he makes it there and is successful then he can decide if Chicago is the place for him or not. If he tanks it because of how he perceives the treatment his bro received then he probably doesn't deserve to be a ML ball player in the first place!

I would probably give up 3-4 of the guys on most top 10 lists, while maybe throwing in a current bullpen arm and/or another lower ranked prospect. Would you give up Ohman along with Pie, Guzman and Hill? What kind of worries me is that the O's (Stockwell) know who is good and who isn't. He shouldn't know anymore or less than what the Cubs know. I'm hoping he'll have some input on the deal and possibly even overvalue some of his guys that he takes pride in drafting. Throw in Dope, Harvey. I'd have to strongly consider Ohman, Pie, Guzman and Hill, and probably would trade them. Like you said Gooney, if anything Stockstill could work in the Cubs favor due to pride. What does it say about his ability to scout talent if he tells the O's management that the Cubs prospects aren't all that good?

Perhaps he meant that he was working more on his conditioning due to his injuries. I may have been able to participate in the DWL but chose to work on getting his legs in better shape so that he can avoid injuries.

That seems to vary by pitcher and situation. Several Cubs management types said last spring that Barrett would be paired with Maddux this past season for the express purpose of improving Barrett's game-calling abilities. That indicates an organizational expectation that Barrett should be calling pitches, at least in some situations. I'm fine with Barrett; if the position could be clearly upgraded, great, but I'm more worried about the outfield than I am about the catchers. Would the cubs be better off using Barrett as a part of deal to obtain a significant upgrade in the OF and then sign Molina? Barrett may be at his peak in value on the trade-market considering his age and offensive capabilities.

Prior and Zambrano are going to be relative bargains throughout their arbitration years. The only way players become non bargains in aribtration years is when they bust from the outset or take total nosedives like Patterson. If either Prior or Zambrano were free agents this offseason, they would have made a killing. i completely agree. i was just addressing what I implied from others in this discussion that Prior isn't worth 5M. Perhaps I just misunderstood what was being said. But yes arbitration years are definitely some of the cheapest years for top players, exceptions being Pujols and santana. At the same time, I like the approach of giving him a one-year contract. It could be signed with the understanding that if all goes normal and Prior makes all of his scheduled starts that they will negogiate an extension next fall. I think it's smart to see how Prior does this well because it's fairly easy to assume he will make all of his starts because a freakish injury isn't likely but at the same time the club wants to make sure there aren't any long-term health effects associated to him getting plunked in the elbow.

This is a perfect opportunity to sell-high. As much as I like barrett and his offensive skills I just don't know that he currently is a difference maker in the lineup. Especially considering his game-calling and defensive skills seem to be called into question through-out the season. it makes me wonder if a team like Philly would be interested. They have an aging catcher and with barrett's history at being able to play 3rd base he could conceivably make a lot of sense for that team. But that's besides the point of the current discussion.

I'd go so far as to say Prior is still an incredible bargain at 4.5-5M. Considering what FA are getting this year to say that Prior isn't worth 2-2.5M more than he is currently making seems a bit outrageous. Ryan Franklin was just signed for 2.6M plus incentives. That was Prior's projected salary this year. Are they of equal value?

Perhaps the Kennedy deal is still on the table but Hairston will go instead. Just a totally random thought. Despite Wilson's high K-rate he still produces a good OBP and crushes lefties. Plus he can play 1st base which will give us a decent player to put at first to give DLee some rest. Didn't Wilson also play some catcher?

question. would it be better to keep Reed and include Murton instead? Just wondering what anyone's thoughts are on that.

Actually I can't see them giving up Aaron Heilman for that. well if they want to get rid of Matsui they are going to have give a team some incentive. Yeah but Heilman? Plus he's throwing in cash for Matsui. Depends on the value the Mets consider Walker to have. He's quite an upgrade over their current situation.

Actually I can't see them giving up Aaron Heilman for that. well if they want to get rid of Matsui they are going to have give a team some incentive.

I have read some of his stuff on BP and read "Juiced." He does a fantastic job of taking stat-based results and putting them into an entertaining read. it's always been a question I had if he would be more of an analyst or "coach" if he were to hold a position on a MLB team. I know he was working with a HS student to teach the gyro-ball so he has some "coaching" abilities. Doesn't he also hold a position at a university for sports medicine? the work at BP and hearing about guys like Marshall just fascinates me and I just don't understand why more clubs wouldn't want to use this type of info.

Sure, Marshall contributed to Will Carroll's book "Saving the Pitcher". I've been meaning to read that. Is Will Carroll "blackballed" as much as Marshall is claimed to be? Not having either one hired, at the very least, as a consultant to a ML ballclub just seems shortsighted and somewhat arrogant. You'd think that trying to be proactive with a ballclubs players would actually cost a team less in the long-run due to medical expenses. Will Carroll isn't MLB material in the same regards as someone like Marshall or Tom House. Will Carroll, more or less, reports the findings rather than creating the model that provides the data he reports as he did in the book. He basically rec'd the findings from Marshall and to a larger extend House as well as various scientific studies in regards to physics and proper mechanics. In short, I think there is a large degree of separation between Carroll and Marshall. Marshall has been ignored by MLB b/c he's considered to be a pompus rectum and that's a bad thing b/c he does provide thoughtful questions towards pitching. so would Will Carroll be more of a Bill James' type to a club?

Sure, Marshall contributed to Will Carroll's book "Saving the Pitcher". I've been meaning to read that. Is Will Carroll "blackballed" as much as Marshall is claimed to be? Not having either one hired, at the very least, as a consultant to a ML ballclub just seems shortsighted and somewhat arrogant. You'd think that trying to be proactive with a ballclubs players would actually cost a team less in the long-run due to medical expenses. As strong and revolutionary as their opinions are, I doubt they would work well as a "consultant" unless they were the types of consultants that have the power to come in and change everything top to bottom. Not gonna happen. I definitely think an owner who has radical ideas and will do whatever it takes to maximize the return on his/her investment while putting out a quality product. A guy like Cuban appears to me to be the type of owner that would come in and try to bring these types of experts in. But that's taking the discussion a bit off-topic. Marshall and Carroll may not need to have the power to completely change everything, they just need an audience that respects and desires to apply whatever knowledge they can to the players. I don't know if any club has that type of personnel.

Whoops!! I guess I can only blame myself for losing my mind. embarassing. Thanks for the link!!

I'm losing my mind here...I can't seem to find Howry's numbers.

Sure, Marshall contributed to Will Carroll's book "Saving the Pitcher". I've been meaning to read that. Is Will Carroll "blackballed" as much as Marshall is claimed to be? Not having either one hired, at the very least, as a consultant to a ML ballclub just seems shortsighted and somewhat arrogant. You'd think that trying to be proactive with a ballclubs players would actually cost a team less in the long-run due to medical expenses.

I wonder if Marshall and Will Carroll have ever been introduced.

Along with that how will this effect Prior's attitude? That would be the question I'd worry about. If it was just crazymlbrumorguy who had this story then I wouldn't be worried about it, but ESPN and Fox had it, as well as the Trib. I hope it only helps to get the Cubs sold to Mark Cuban so that we can keep Prior. And maybe get some PS2s for the players. Well heck, I'd settle for Billy Beane or Theo Epstein as GM! :p

Along with that how will this effect Prior's attitude?

Not sure if this has been discussed but just want to offer up what has been going through my brain recently. First, I think it's just odd that Hendry said steadfastly that he would NOT be trading Prior or Zambrano after they were rumored going in a deal for Tejada or Abreu. then suddenly Prior is being offered. To that it makes me wonder if the freak injuries Prior has been going through have actually taken a real toll on his arm and therefore there are some recent questions to what his long-term effectiveness will be. This is all just so curious. I'm sure we'll never get the full story but it would be interesting to know what has changed to make Hendry want to trade Prior now.

I think the Rangers would give Teixeira +, but what would the Cubs do with Teixeira? How many great bat, great fielding first basemen does a team need? And who else do the Rangers have that the Cubs would want? I believe Tex is athletic enough to convert to LF. He has played RF but not a whole lot.

2B isn't the most obvious place for him to move. SS move because of decreased range, 2B still need range. I'm thinking 3B or LF. Regardless, once you move him out of SS, the premium you pay for production at SS is more than you should pay for production at 2B. You don't trade young top 10 pitchers for a guy you might have to move in a couple years. I hate when other people post "I have a source" stuff, but I'll do it anyway. Take it with a grain of salt. I would do the same if I were in your position. I have a source I respect who tells me that Mark Prior absolutely hates everything about the Chicago Cubs organization. It's almost a 100% sure thing that he's leaving as a free agent the very instant he can. You could be looking at Tejada for four years versus Prior for three years. Obviously, I don't know this for sure. Just something to consider. Were reasons given? I mean I know why I and many others hate the organization but I wonder if there are different reasons from a players perspective.

Hendry's MO this off-season seems to be built around pitching and defense. Unless he has plans to replace Prior I don't see this going through. Unfortunately I'd worry about with whom he would replace Prior.