Rcal10

Freeman signed a 6 year $162M deal with the Dodgers. He is a much better offensive player than Bellinger. Just look at his OPS+ the last 8 years. I would think if Bellinger was signed strictly to play 1st base we would be talking about something like 6/$132?

They could. But using PCA to get that pitcher in a trade gets you a better pitcher with more time to control him than using someone like Alcantara or Brown or other minor league talent. I think that is the point when people talk about dealing PCA, if they sign Bellinger.

But the options you suggest are nowhere near the players the Cubs should be going after. Tauchman and Canario are not a good option to Bellinger. Wesneski, Brown, Assad are not good options to someone like Luzardo in a trade or Montgomery as a free agent. Mervis is not an option for Hoskins or a Naylor trade. Madrigal and Wisdom are not options over Chapman. I feel as long as I have been in these sites people always try suggesting the Cubs don’t need someone because their minor leaguer is just as good. I remember that argument when the Cubs traded for Fowler. A lot of people suggested he wasn’t needed because they had A. Alcantara and Almora. You are doing the same thing now.

Why should a large revenue team experiment with what it would be like to be a small market team and have to build within the margins? In doing this they would be working at a disadvantage to the small market teams, who every year get an extra draft pick, more IFA money and also get compensated better for losing a QO free agent and penalized less for signing a QO free agent. Why would any large revenue team want to conduct this sort of experiment and work from a disadvantage? Sadly, it is exactly what the Cubs are doing.

Why would this happen? Why are the ins trading a bat at the deadline?

But what is the point of that? I thought most people suggested if you pay Bellinger the $25M to $27M a year for 6-8 years he needs to be in center to be worth the contract. Basically because he isn’t worth that at 1st. How is it different if he moves to left to put Happ at first? You put a guy at first who isn’t as good as Bellinger. If you want to argue that Bellinger is a better left fielder than Happ, fine. But I would rather have a better fielder at 1st. As for DH, for that to happen Morel has to play 3rd. Something else most don’t think he can do. I am fine with signing Bellinger but if they keep PCA it does make for a less than ideal fit. I think you end up putting Bellinger at 1st base. Which, again, most have make a good point that he isn’t worth $27M a year for 6 years as a first baseman. I think 1908 pointed out he thinks it is highly unlikely they trade PCA. I actually agree with him. I am suggesting what I wish they would trade PCA to fill another need. I am not suggesting that I think they will. IMO if they sign Bellinger, PCA will start in the minors. Once he is brought up they will work him in as TT suggested playing 6 guys at 5 positions, the rest of 24. Then in 25 Bellinger is the first baseman. To me this is not ideal. But I do agree with 1908 that PCA seems like the exact type of player the Cubs want. And they do want to build from within.

Exactly. I have said that before.

We are just not going to agree. To me most of the options you are suggesting need upgrades. The Cubs also don’t have to wait for the market to fall to get a guy. They don’t have to have the rest of baseball dictate what they do. They should know who they want and go get that guy. They are not the pirates. The plan they are using is a plan for teams with low revenues.

To be fair none of those first baseman were any good or worth their contract. I wouldn’t want Abreu for another 2 years at around $17M a year.

What happens with Morel. Is he playing 3rd? Most hate that idea. So he is the DH. As I said, kind of a right fit if you sign Bellinger and keep PCA. Especially if you don’t like the idea of Bellinger playing first after 2024.

And what happens to Suzuki? BTW, I don’t mind keeping PCA. But I do think he helps more being traded for another solid player to fill another hole. If they don’t get Bellinger for sure centerfield would be PCA at some point next year. If they do they can still work something out, but if PCA+ brought back Luzardo or some combination of a young controlled pitcher and another bat to fill a spot, trading him would have to be considered. Let’s say to Tampa for Lowe and a young pitcher. Lowe plays 1st or 3rd and the pitcher we have for 5 years or more. I am not looking at Tampa’s roster, but they probably have a fit somewhere. Maybe to Cleveland for Naylor and Bibee.

Agreed. And I will add, I think that philosophy is shared by Jed, as well. That is why he is here.

Me too. That is why I would like to see him back.

Bellinger isn’t worth what he will cost to sign if he isn’t in center. That is the problem.

With the Twins making a move today for the major league roster the Cubs are now the only team to have not make any transaction resulting in adding a player to the major league roster. Congratulations Jed, you did it. You waited out the entire league. Now, let’s do something!!!!!!

Fingers crossed.

I, for 1, am not suggesting he is traded because he started slow. I have suggested it only in the event they got Bellinger. And only for high quality back. His slow start is not remotely a consideration.

I would be fine with signing Bellinger and Hoskins to start the process of making the 24’ Cubs a playoff team. I am not as concerned as some about signing Bellinger for up to 7 years and Hoskins to a 1 year deal. From there I would like to see a few smaller size trades. One for Bieber and another for Polanco. Let Polanco and Morel figure out who is better at 3rd and the other is then the DH. Since Bieber, Polanco and Hoskins are on one year deals plus all the other money coming off the books after the 24 season, I would like to see them go over the LT threshold next year. Maybe sign a Giolitto and a decent pen arm. The following year guys like PCA, Horton, maybe Shaw, Cassie, Brown will be ready to fill in for guys lost. And they can be back under the LT threshold again. Trading for Bieber and Polanco won’t hit your minor league system that hard. Might even get those guys for guys like Wesneski, Assad, Wisdom, Mervis,Madrigal plus a lower end prospect. I don’t think they would have to lose a top 10 system prospect. IMO that is a 90+ win team. You have a solid line up, a decent staff with depth and you still have a lot of your minor league talent if you have to make moves at the deadline. There really is no good reason they can’t do this. But I just don’t think they will, unfortunately.

I don’t think he will get $200M. And I agree with you that if someone had that out there now he would have signed already. But we have to remember that he is a Boros client. So this delay isn’t unusual. I still think he ends up getting at least a 6 year deal and at least at $25M a year. Big difference between 6/$150 and 8/$210 or so. So it isn’t surprising he is still out there. But I think a team will find middle ground.

If that $200M is for 8 years he doesn’t need to produce a 5WAR to be worth that annual salary. More like a 3WAR, which he can do. Besides that, just because he wants $200M doesn’t mean he gets that. I can see something like 7/$182 being a good middle ground between what the Cubs probably hope they could get him at (6/$150) and what Boros would realistically want (8/$216).

If they got Chapman and did trade for Naylor they wouldn’t have to also sign Hoskins. Morel can just DH. Then maybe they can spend on a decent, MOR pitcher instead of paying Hoskins. (Stroman? Giolito?)

Yes, they can’t keep letting options go and then say “oh well” we will pivot to another option. That is why this idea of seeing who falls to them sucks for a team with their revenues. Sometimes you have to have a concrete plan and make it happen.

Unless Morel can play 3rd (and most feel he can’t) I don’t really like the fit of Bellinger with PCA. If/when PCA came in the team one of the outfielders would have to DH daily or Bellinger would have to move to first. I don’t like that either. I want either Hoskins or a trade for Naylor to occupy 1st. I totally understand your logic. And I agree it doesn’t appear the Cubs would deal PCA. But if they are not, I would rather them just pass on Bellinger. (Unless Morel is the 3rd baseman).

Honestly I am more unhappy about the idea of Bieber being traded to the Dodger. I kind of liked the Bieber/Naylor idea for the Cubs. As you said, Clase is more a luxury for a sure playoff team.

Fine, people can worry about whatever they want to worry about. I am not nearly as concerned about him playing centerfield at 33 or 34 than I am him actually continuing to be a productive hitter the next 5 to 7 years. If anything, the fact that he can, if he has to, move to first at 33 makes his signing less risky IMO. I am more concerned with “will he hit,” To me it comes down to what is the better option? Sign Bellinger for 7 years and trade PCA+ for Luzardo or stick with PCA in center and use the money you would spend on Bellinger to sign Montgomery for 6 years. Which is the better team in 24’ and which is the better team years after 24? Whichever way they go, they still need more. Someone like Hoskins and/or Chapman as a free agent and/or guys like Bieber and Naylor in a trade.