Rcal10

Agreed. I have to think Boston is putting up a lot of money, Grissom is a big get for one year of Sale. Hopefully it is enough for them not to go for the top pitchers. But they do need a pitcher now.

Unless it is a large amount of money I don’t understand this deal. Braves appear to be fixing up someone significantly more valuable than Sale. This doesn’t help the Cubs if the Guardians hold Bieber until getting something like Grissom. But I guess the money matters to. And then, now that Sale is gone, doesn’t that put the Red Aox back into the pitching market. Jed really needs to start doing something!!!!

If they don’t get Bellinger they get a draft pick for him. I doubt losing a pick would stop them from signing someone. I agree that they would rather not lose the pick, but if they had to I think they would. As for trades, what about Bieber? He isn’t going to cost much. I would consider him a quality mlb player.

The other issue with him is where does he play? He played 12 games at 1st base last year. Is he the DH? If so what happens with Morel? Does he play 3rd or first? We all really have no idea what the FO plan is. It is very different if they believe Morel can play 3rd.

I agree a worst case scenario is Bieber(or similar) in a trade or Stroman as a free agent. But then what? If they do get Bieber in a trade I hope they get Naylor too. That adds a lefty bat without spending a lot. They can still probably spend on a free agent bat and a pen arm.

Whatever dude. Anytime someone says anything negative about Jed you are there defending him. And the funny thing is I am not even criticizing Jed. I think he will put together a good team next year. I just don’t think he will sign a pitcher for 6 years and an average of around $25M. For some reason you become unhinged at anyone who thinks like that. Maybe you should take a break from the site and come back after the off season. You seem to be freaking out and take issue with anyone who doesn’t think like you. You did this about a week ago with me and then again with tool a few days ago. Just settle down. We don’t all have to agree. In fact that’s exactly the point of the site To discuss topics we all might see differently.!

The team I am most scared of is the Cubs. I just don’t see them giving out a 5 or 6 year deal for a pitcher at $22M to $26M a year. But we will see. I will happily tell you that you are right if the Cubs ink one of the top 3 pitchers. I hope you will do the same to me when they don’t. I don't know why every time anyone posts contrary to what you think it has to turn into this contentious debate. I don’t see signing Giolito as an positive development. Period! As for possible other team looking for top guys, I can see the Angels, Seattle(Snell), Mets, Orioles and Boston,still, besides the Yankees and San Fran. For the last time, I just don’t consider Boston signing Giolito as “good news”. I don’t feel it has any bearing on what we the Xubs do.

You started your post with “Great news” Boston signed Giolito. I said I don’t see it as great news. I told you why I don’t. I didn’t say it sucks the Cubs didn’t get him. I just don’t see this signing as having much bearing on the Cubs. I don’t think it eliminates Boston from getting another pitcher. And even if it did, there are plenty of teams that will outbid the Cubs for a top guy.

Maybe. But maybe not if they traded for a better pitcher too. The bigger issue, for me anyway, was the annual salary. I am ok with them not getting him. But I think if he got that the top 3 pitchers will get $3M to $6M more and for at least 5 years. And I am having a hard time believing the Cubs will play in those waters. The reason I don’t think this was a good omen for the Xubs is I feel it makes those other pitchers more expensive.

Give me a list of players the Cubs want? I would like to see it. This way when they sign elsewhere we don’t have to hear it was no big deal because the Cubs didn’t want him anyway. I am curious as to who you think they want.

First off, I do like Giolito a little. And we have no idea who the Cubs like or who they will target. But besides that, if Giolito got that money annually what do the top 3 lefties get? Do you rally believe the Cubs are going to spend $20M+ for 5 or more years on any of them? This signing kind of sets the bar on annual payment. I just don’t see the Cubs spending on pitching like that. And after the top 3 and maybe Stroman there really isn’t anyone who interests me as a free agent. Maybe they get pitching via a trade. I just don’t think signing is a good sign for the Cubs.

If not one of the top 3 or Stroman he might as well punt on signing a FA pitcher and just get one in a trade. Go with Wicks as the 5th starter and have guys like Wesneski, Assad, Smyly, Brown and Horton as options if they decide to gowith a 6 man staff for a bit, or there are injuries or poor performance of the top 5.

I don’t see it as great news at all. Just another guy the Cubs can’t sign. And if he cost $19M annual what are the other 3 going to cost? I know there is time. I know you think they will make some bigger signing. I wish I shared your belief. Even a guy like Stroman. What is he going to cost? I am started to wish he didn’t opt out because I doubt they get anyone better than him via free agency.

You lost me at Keegan.

Honestly I am not even talking about that kind of a signing now. I am just talking about with the guys who are left. If there is a bat and a starting pitcher the Cubs do want, I don’t feel they need to let the market play out so they can get the best deal. Go get the guy. If their plan is Bellinger, for example, then sign him. Don’t wait and have someone else get him so you change your plan to Chapman. I don’t like the idea of the market dictating the Xubs moves. That is what small market teams do. Same with pitchers. If they like a pit her more than others then sing him. Again, don’t wait to take the guy who is standing. He might be your last choice. At least with pitchers they won’t have to change the direction of the rest of the if season. With a bat they do. If Hoskins falls and ends up the guy the Cubs can get, then maybe they don’t want to trade for Naylor. But if they are left with Chapman standing maybe they should have traded for Naylor. Waiting on the bat slows down anything else they want to do. I would just like to see them operate S if they have a ola as to who they want. Not a ola to take what is left.

How do I get specific on overcoming an overpriced contract? I can give you an example of the Dodger. Most years they are overpaying several guys on their team and winning. I believe one year they had Crawford & Price on their team for crazy money and not playing them and won. They had Bauer for a lot of money getting no value. If you look you can find example after example of a team winning with a guy making big money and not playing. And I am not even talking about that now. I agree with you on the super long contracts for the super stars. It makes me nervous too. But what I am talking about is guys that are available now. If they want Bellinger than get him. Maybe they only want 5 years. But if they have to go to 7, than do it. If they want him. Same with any of the pitchers, Chapman or whoever else they are interested in. Why do they have to wait until the rest of the market passes on a guy and get him cheap? In the case of Bellinger, if he was making $26M a year and was solid for 4 or 5 those years and the last 2 he was an ok player being overpaid, does that cripple the Cubs? If he is a starter who ends up with a WAR of 2.5 does paying more than he is worth soon the Cubs to failure? I don’t think so. TBH I am still not comfortable with the 10-12 year deal either. I just know if the Cubs never do that sort of deal they will never get the top FA.

The issue could be with the reds discussion people and talking about who the Sox are asking for. With the orioles that might be who the orioles want to give up. IMO the Sox ask is ridiculous. And that’s fine. They can ask that. Doesn’t mean they get it.

That is fine. But what has been pointed out numerous times now, to get Bellinger they have to pay him as a centerfielder. As a centerfielder he can very well be worth $25M to $27M a year for 6 or 7 years. As a first baseman he is probably worth maybe $20M or $21M a year for maybe 4 or 5 years. There is no reason he should DH, and if he did he isn’t worth $26M a year. And if he played the corner either Happ or Suzuki has to be traded or they DH. And if the have Morel and he can’t play 3rd, DH is taken. So, sure, they can put him at 1st but his contract would be a substantial overpay for his production.

Yep, but for some reason some fans love the idea of winning on the margins. Winning without a star. Winning with all value contracts. I don’t care. The only thing that matters is winning. Being a high revenue team gives you the luxury of indulging every once in a while on a top line player. And at the end of his contract when he isn’t worth the money you should be able to still be competitive as long as you don’t have too many of those contracts. did anyone really complain about what Lester was making the last few years of his contract? I didn’t. In fact, Lester was probably one of the best FA the Cubs ever signed. Yet he was not worth his contract for a bit at the end of his deal.

Got it. I am not sure he would do straight 6 man staff, but I would bet even if there weee no jnjuries(which isn’t possible) he would still have some pitchers get extra rest from time to time. So I could see ) starters used, for sure.

Why are you asking that?

Sometimes you have to pay a guy on a contract even when you know the back 2 or 3 years if it might not be great. That is the advantage of high revenues. You should be able to overcome that overpriced contract. If you get 6 years of very good and 2 where he isn’t worth the contract that is a win. Take Lester as an example. His last few years he wasn’t very good. But they won a horsefeathers World Series so no one is complaining. Your way of thinking will mean the Cubs never sign a high end FA. Which I said before and I was told I was overreacting. The Cubs can sign a guy longer term even if it means at the end he might not be so great. They should have enough young, cheap talent to balance that out. You keep championing the Cubs and their “responsible spending” and continue to root for a team that will never be a serious contender using that philosophy. I will continue to hope they put on big boy pants and act like a team that wants to win. Quick question, would you rather the Cubs be like the Dodgers and spend like they did this year or be “fiscally responsible”?

I agree he shouldn’t get the blame for that. But he also shouldn’t get credit for trying. It is easy to suggest you are making offers when you know a guy isn’t coming here. He basically knew he had no shot at those guys. So while he can’t be blamed for not getting them I don’t think anyone should give him credit for trying for someone he couldn’t possibly get. Up until now he hasn’t been aggressive with anyone he could reasonably get.

I actually agree with you. There is time. And I think they have closer to $70M to spend. Using your numbers that is Hoskins, Bellinger, and Giolitto as free agents. Maybe a trade for Bieber and also get a pen arm somewhere. That should be enough to be a division favorite. For me, rather than Bieber I would like to see a PCA trade for either something like Naylor/Bibee or PCA plus for Luzardo and then a seperate trade to the Guardians for Naylor. Maybe Wesneski and Canario. Of course if they got Naylor that would put either him or Hoskins at DH, so Morel would have to play 3rd. I doubt they trade PCA though. I think 1908 is spot on with what he says about how the Cubs view PCA. All scenarios are under $70M annual.

I don’t understand your obvious need to replace Happ in left field. What makes you think Canario is going to be better. I get all the negative stats on Happ, but he did win 2 gold gloves. So was he the best of a bad group? Maybe. But doesn’t the bad fielder usually play left? Sorry, I have a hard time penciling Canario into the everyday line up on a good feeling about him.