soccer10k

What (if any) downside do you see to Prior throwing 116 pitches in game 2? Just curious. That he stayed in 2 innings too long in a blowout win. What better time to give your bullpen a little work, especially with an day off the following day, than in a blowout? My main argument that it wasn't that one game that killed Prior, it was the whole season of being overworked and September in particular. As I said before, Prior also had 5 days off in between Games 2 and 6. If Prior wore down in Game 6, it wasn't 116 pitches in Game 2 that caused it.

not being able to put a successful sacrifice bunt down in key situations is something a little bigger than a mole hill. most teams would kill to have ozzie as their manager. ozzie won a freakin world series. as im sure many cubs fans, including myself, find his antics annoying all the time, he will always have a job. look at terrel owens in the NFL. the guy is a total headcase, yet no matter how many teams he leaves, he will always have a job because he is such a good player. Like others have said, the problem with the White Sox is their pitching not their offense.

Well if one HBP results in injury and losing the player for an extended time, while the other doesn't, that's not fair. I'm just talking about your general beaning in the back. Don't throw at the head. Just throw it at the middle of their back - a spot that rarely results in a serious injury. If the player sticks his elbow in the way or doesn't turn, that's his fault. I don't care. Of course not. Becuase my posts didn't mention either the White Sox or the Tigers in any way which seems to be the only thing you care about.

Not going to happen because Z is starting on Tuesday.

I would do this if Theriot was not involved... cause if he is we would not have a second baseman. Then again... i guess you could put Tejada at secondIzturis would be our 2B oh yay.. i miss read it.. I thought Izturis was being traded to get us Tejada... in that case IDC if Theriot is in the deal or not In the original post it was stated that Izturis would be part of the package being sent to Baltimore. If that's the case, why not just put Ronny at second and Tejada at short? here is the post i said i miss read I realize that. I'm talking about the post that started the thread. The post that referenced Phil Rogers.

Have fun with a contender Scott.

I would do this if Theriot was not involved... cause if he is we would not have a second baseman. Then again... i guess you could put Tejada at secondIzturis would be our 2B oh yay.. i miss read it.. I thought Izturis was being traded to get us Tejada... in that case IDC if Theriot is in the deal or not In the original post it was stated that Izturis would be part of the package being sent to Baltimore. If that's the case, why not just put Ronny at second and Tejada at short?

Honestly I just knew nothing about him. He may very well be a good option. If he could be had real cheap maybe you could even sign him AND Zito and try and consolidate some of out young pitchers to get an even better young player. There is no way the Cubs sign Zito in the offseason and, for the amount of money he is going to command, I don't think they should go after him. Considering Boras is his agent it's unlikely that he is going to take a few mil a year less to go somewhere.

Did he get beaned? What happened?

Well if Prior throws arond 90 pitches in game 2, he doesn't run out of gas at the end of game 6, which is what happened to him. So you're going to seriously tell me that one game of being overworked ruined Prior - even though he had 5 DAYS OFF rather than his normal four - and not a whole season of being overworked? That's ludicrous. I'm not saying that, but he should've saved him when he could have. I think it was lost there b/c those are 30-40 good pitches we could have had for game 6. Again, Prior was tired because of being overworked over the course of the whole season, not one game. To use an example, let's just say that Prior had the same pitches per start average that Marshall did this year (84 per game with a max of 102) rather than what he actually had in 2003 (113 per game with a max of 133), threw 116 pitches in a playoff game, then came out in his next start and wore down as the game went on. In that scenario you could make the argument that Prior had been worn down because he threw 32 more pitches than his average. But Prior was used to throwing 115+ pitches in 2003 so saying he wore down because of one start in which he threw 3 more pitches than his season average is just wrong. In fact, I would think that the 126 pitches he averaged every start in September of 2003 would have had a bigger effect on his arm.

Because they are one of the greatest metal bands of all time.

Well if Prior throws arond 90 pitches in game 2, he doesn't run out of gas at the end of game 6, which is what happened to him. So you're going to seriously tell me that one game of being overworked ruined Prior - even though he had 5 DAYS OFF rather than his normal four - and not a whole season of being overworked? That's ludicrous.

If we would have brought in a righty to start the inning McKeon had mentioned he would have used Harris in placee of Lowell. Dusty bringing in a lefty to start the inning which he later mentioned was to keep a check on Lenny. So it was lost in Game 6, but could have been won long before Game 6 even happened. What if Lenny Harris singles since it's unlikely he would have hit a home run? Then it ends up with the same situation outlined above with Lowell being walked.

Wouldn't that be blind squirrel, meet acorn? :wink: Probably.

Well if one HBP results in injury and losing the player for an extended time, while the other doesn't, that's not fair. I'm just talking about your general beaning in the back. Don't throw at the head. Just throw it at the middle of their back - a spot that rarely results in a serious injury. If the player sticks his elbow in the way or doesn't turn, that's his fault.

I have to go with GnR.

Pantera by far.

Glendon Rusch. :puke:

no need to dwell on the past..and personally I think Wood was ruined before he got to the majors because of his back issues he had as a kid.. as for Prior.. as I said in the other thread... I think he will return to form next year.That is just irresponsible. Wood wasn't ruined in 98 or 01,02,03. He was ruined by Johnnie B Baker. Plain and simple. Yup, Dusty caused Kerry to have to undergo Tommy John surgery after the 1998 season. Also, you claim Kerry wasn't ruined in 2003 yet claim he was ruined by Johnnie B Baker. But I believe Johnnie B Baker was the Cubs manager in 2003. So you are, in essence, contradicting yourself.

That series was lost in Game 6 and only Game 6. Not the Lowell Game 1 home run because you don't walk the leadoff hitter in an extra inning tie game unless he's an MVP player (re: Bonds circa 2001ish or David Ortiz now), which Lowell isn't. By doing so you are just asking to lose the game. Look at the way that inning went: M Lowell homered to center. J Pierre grounded out to second. A Alfonseca relieved M Guthrie. L Castillo reached on infield single to shortstop. L Castillo stole second. I Rodriguez intentionally walked. D Lee walked, L Castillo to third, I Rodriguez to second. M Cabrera lined into double play, shortstop to second, I Rodriguez doubled off second. Ok. So say they walk Lowell. Pierre likely bunts him over to second. Castillo would still reach on a single to the shortstop which puts 1st and 2nd with 1 out. Then you have to pitch to Pudge. How do you know he doesn't come through like he did the whole postseason? You don't. The Cubs didn't lose the series with this game. The Cubs didn't lose the series with Prior throwing 116 pitches in Game 2. Why would that one game have any effect on him in Game 6 especially considering he had 5 DAYS OFF between Games 2 and 6. That's one more day off than he was used to having. Wouldn't you think the 113 pitches per start Prior averaged over the course of the whole season have the bigger effect on his arm? He only threw 3 more pitches than his season average. Now if Prior had averaged 90 pitches per start during the year and threw 120 in Game 2, then you might have an argument. I'm not saying that Dusty was right in leaving him in, and I think he definately should have taken him out considering the circumstances. But to say that Game 2 killed Prior's arm is ludicrous. Beckett shut down the Cubs in Game 5 and they didn't have a chance to win that game. He pitched unbelievably well at home in Florida so the Cubs didn't lose that game, the Marlins won it. Game 6 was what lost the Cubs the series. They had numerous opportunities to make things right. Whether that means Gonzalez fielding that ball cleanly or Baker having a reliever ready it doesn't matter. The Cubs lost the 2003 NLCS in Game 6. The Cubs didn't have a chance in Game 7. Sure Kerry Wood hit the homer that electrified Wrigley and tied the game. Alou homered to give the Cubs the lead. But the Game 7 loss was inevitable. Sure, theoretically the Cubs could have pulled the series out and managed a stunning comeback the day after an unbelievable loss. But that doesn't happen. The bottom line is that the Cubs lost the 2003 NLCS in Game 6 and the Marlins won the NLCS in Game 7.

I believe he is referring to Shawn Estes in that quote. Yep. And by Baseball Prospectus's VORP stat, Shawn Estes really was the worst pitcher in all of baseball in 2003, so Sheehan's statement isn't just hyperbole. Estes sucked, and Baker sent him to the mound time after time. The #7 worst pitcher in 2003 by VORP (out of 676 players who pitched that year): Glendon Rusch. It's good to see Hendry has improved the pitching staff during his tenure. :wink: If I remember correctly Estes threw a shotout that last week of the season on the same day Oswalt was pitching for the Astros and everyone was giving the day to them. For some reason the Stros lost and Cubs won. Not saying Shawn is a good pitcher, I just remember everyone partying when that matchup flipped. Needle, meet haystack.

Sort of an odd thing to hear about from Maddux and sort of an odd thing to see reported by the coaching staff. Maddux does have a sense of humor. He was joking with Pole. That's my type of humor. I would make a joke like that as well. I highly doubt that Maddux was being serious about this.

Marmol definately looks like a solid #2 starter (at least) but Marshall could be as well though. Both need to improve their WHIP. Marshall also seems to be on and off with his performances - he'll be good one time out and bad another time out. Both need more time in the bigs and I will be disappointed if either is sent down to AAA this year.

My goodness.

I'm a fan of the old time way of solving beanings. Pitcher from Team A beans player from Team B. If Team B deems it intentional, pitcher from Team B beans player from Team A. That ends it. No brawl. No suspensions. No return beanings by Team A. A HBP for a HBP.