soccer10k

Definitely a great deal for Dallas.

Looks like Cleveland will be taking Quinn.

I was expecting either Detroit or Cleveland to try to trade up at this point to get Quinn now.

I'm really, REALLY hoping one of Bowe, Meachem, or Jarrett (who is most likely to still be on the board) are still available at the beginning of the second round. Hell, Quinn could still be available for the Raiders to take then. Is it too late to trade Russell to the Lions for Johnson?

And how much of that was due to the talent at LSU? I'm guessing a lot. I'm not saying Russell would have been trash otherwise but he wouldn't be anywhere near the prospect he is if he switched spots with Quinn. The talent at LSU was miles ahead of the talent at Notre Dame the last couple years. Umm, we're comparing JMR to John Navarre of an equally talented Michigan teams. Not talking about ND here. I just used Notre Dame because of Quinn. I could have used any team with substantially less talent than LSU had and the point would still stand. How much of Russell's numbers were based on how much talent he had around him? We're getting to a different subject here - I agree with you that JMR was aided by a good team (but scouts don't look at just how he does against a porous ND defense while LSU has many other NFL caliber offensive players). As I've already said, I'm not the biggest JMR fan. Just stating he didn't come out of nowhere. That doesn't change the fact that JMR was a probable first rounder during the regular college football season and a potential top-10 pick right before the Sugar Bowl. You think he was a top-10 pick before the Sugar Bowl and I don't. Can we agree to disagree and end this debate.

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't. How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute. Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere. I knew about Russell as a solid prospect. He was not a "big time prospect" which I would define as a top 10 or 15 pick i.e. a sure first rounder. He didn't get close to that level until the Sugar Bowl. And if pre-work out draft boards are meaningless then what does that say about what people thought about his pro prospects coming out of high school - which you brought into the discussion to defend Russell? Wouldn't those be even more meaningless? You're really reaching here. Pre workout draft boards are meaningless because they fluctuate so much from that time until draft day. Keeping up with who has pro potential coming out of high school is an important part of team's scouting. There's no connection. How am I reaching? If draft boards measuring a player's pro potential before their workout is meaningless, so should every other draft board before the pre draft workout. Sorry, I think I used the wrong terminology and threw you off. I meant pre-work out mock drafts. Things like NFL draft countdown, Kiper's big board, stuff like that. I mean that trying to slot who is going where and who is better than who in November means nothing, because those players haven't ever had individual work outs in front of NFL eyes, things change so quick. When you're looking at a freshman QB and saying "he could be a special one in 3 years" isn't the same as saying "this guy will go No. 1 to Oakland" in August. You're comparing apples to oranges. Ok. I get what you're saying now with regards to the last paragraph.

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't. How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute. Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere. Exactly. Soul, I can't believe you compared Navarre to JMR. I made the comparison because IMB based his big-time status on those physical attributes. So what? Make a better argument next time for why Russell's a big-time prospect. Russell has done a whole lot more on the field, against much tougher opponents. JMR was on scouts' radars before this season - he was earmarked as a likely first rounder all season. Oh, and for the record, I think Quinn will have a better NFL career and I would have taken Calvin Johnson with the first pick overall. But, JMR didn't just come out of nowhere because of the Sugar Bowl (and he didn't need the workouts to become the top overall pick as you said earlier). Alright. That's why I asked for a definition of big time prospect. To me, players drafted late in the 1st round are generally not big time prospects. And BTW, there's always many more than 32 players who are considered "1st round picks" each year by someone or another. So that just doesn't have a lot of meaning for me. Here's the problem - and the thing IMB! has been harking on for a while now and you just touched on it - it's too early before January. JMR was definitely on the scouts' radars and didn't come from nowhere. By the time the Sugar Bowl had come around, he had definitely become a first round pick...he was still below Quinn, but it wasn't a surprise that he was there. In terms of a "big time prospect" (pretty tough to define), I think a potential first rounder with the skill set of JMR has to be considered a big time prospect because those skills can easily help him move up a lot. There are a ton of players who are "on the scouts' radars" so that doesn't mean anything. It just means they have pro prospects but it doesn't say anything as to how high they are rated.

And how much of that was due to the talent at LSU? I'm guessing a lot. I'm not saying Russell would have been trash otherwise but he wouldn't be anywhere near the prospect he is if he switched spots with Quinn. The talent at LSU was miles ahead of the talent at Notre Dame the last couple years. Umm, we're comparing JMR to John Navarre of an equally talented Michigan teams. Not talking about ND here. I just used Notre Dame because of Quinn. I could have used any team with substantially less talent than LSU had and the point would still stand. How much of Russell's numbers were based on how much talent he had around him?

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't. How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute. Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere. I knew about Russell as a solid prospect. He was not a "big time prospect" which I would define as a top 10 or 15 pick i.e. a sure first rounder. He didn't get close to that level until the Sugar Bowl. And if pre-work out draft boards are meaningless then what does that say about what people thought about his pro prospects coming out of high school - which you brought into the discussion to defend Russell? Wouldn't those be even more meaningless? You're really reaching here. Pre workout draft boards are meaningless because they fluctuate so much from that time until draft day. Keeping up with who has pro potential coming out of high school is an important part of team's scouting. There's no connection. How am I reaching? If draft boards measuring a player's pro potential before their workout is meaningless, so should every other draft board before the pre draft workout.

And how much of that was due to the talent at LSU? I'm guessing a lot. I'm not saying Russell would have been trash otherwise but he wouldn't be anywhere near the prospect he is if he switched spots with Quinn. The talent at LSU was miles ahead of the talent at Notre Dame the last couple years.

You aren't following. I'm saying they knew of his as a big-time draft prospect. Which you apparently didn't. How can you exaggerate and use the word literally in a sentence. Think about that for a minute. Quinn being No. 1 before the draft proves that pre-work out draft boards are meaningless. Because Russell wasn't on them at some arbitrary point during the season doesn't mean that scouts were sleeping on him and he just skyrocketed out of nowhere. I knew about Russell as a solid prospect. He was not a "big time prospect" which I would define as a top 10 or 15 pick i.e. a sure first rounder. He didn't get close to that level until the Sugar Bowl. And if pre-work out draft boards are meaningless then what does that say about what people thought about his pro prospects coming out of high school - which you brought into the discussion to defend Russell? Wouldn't those be even more meaningless?

Is this the first draft you've ever watched? That's the way these things work, that's the way they're supposed to work. The point remains, you said he was "literally nowhere" before his last couple games, and that's completely false. Anyone who follows college football knew who he was and could see his talent when he stepped on the field his freshman year. That kind of arm doesn't go unnoticed. I like how you've changed your point from "completely nowhere" to "not a top-10 pick" by the way. I like how you keep harping on it, even though I explained what I meant. Plenty of QBs have a 10-ton arm, doesn't mean they're the #1 pick. There will be great players drafted on the 2nd day, that's not even the subject of the discussion. Nothing that you just said has anything to do with our discussion at all. He's been a big time prospect for a long time, of course he wasn't the No. 1 pick before the Sugar Bowl, no one was, these things take time to get decided. You're proving complete ignorance here. Define "Big Time Prospect" then. Are you serious? He was a big, strong quarterback with a huge arm that played at a big-time SEC school since his freshman year. He was no one's No. 1 pick at the beginning of the year, but guess who was? Brady Quinn. Draft boards in August mean nothing. Quinn was the top pick in the draft up until the Sugar Bowl. Nobody though he would get past the Raiders at #1 or #2 (since at the time the Raiders and Lions were tied for the worst record). Have you been following the discussion at all? He said that Russell was "literally nowhere" before the sugar bowl. Saying that Quinn was No. 1 then means nothing. You guys need to face facts, people who follow college football and draft prospects have known about Russell for a long time now. Obviously people who follow college football knew about him - he went to LS-freaking-U. Of course people are going to know about him. What are you going to tell me next, they knew about Brady Quinn too? Yes I've been following the discussion hence the reason I'm posting. Soul was obviously exaggerating when he said that Russell was "literally nowhere". I don't think Russell was a first round pick before the Sugar Bowl. And if saying Quinn was #1 before the Sugar Bowl means nothing is absolutely absurd. You're the one bringing up what scouts thought of Russell for the past few years.

Is this the first draft you've ever watched? That's the way these things work, that's the way they're supposed to work. The point remains, you said he was "literally nowhere" before his last couple games, and that's completely false. Anyone who follows college football knew who he was and could see his talent when he stepped on the field his freshman year. That kind of arm doesn't go unnoticed. I like how you've changed your point from "completely nowhere" to "not a top-10 pick" by the way. I like how you keep harping on it, even though I explained what I meant. Plenty of QBs have a 10-ton arm, doesn't mean they're the #1 pick. There will be great players drafted on the 2nd day, that's not even the subject of the discussion. Nothing that you just said has anything to do with our discussion at all. He's been a big time prospect for a long time, of course he wasn't the No. 1 pick before the Sugar Bowl, no one was, these things take time to get decided. You're proving complete ignorance here. Define "Big Time Prospect" then. Are you serious? He was a big, strong quarterback with a huge arm that played at a big-time SEC school since his freshman year. He was no one's No. 1 pick at the beginning of the year, but guess who was? Brady Quinn. Draft boards in August mean nothing. Quinn was the top pick in the draft up until the Sugar Bowl. Nobody though he would get past the Raiders at #1 or #2 (since at the time the Raiders and Lions were tied for the worst record).

JMR didn't become a top pick because of his workout because of his draft, though that solidified it. He became the top QB in the draft because of the Sugar Bowl. Sure, he was rated highly before hand but he was probably a second round pick before the Sugar Bowl. If Russell faces a good defense in the Sugar Bowl like Quinn did rather than a high school defense, he wouldn't be talked about right now as the best quarterback in the draft and would be one of the guys, along with Stanton and Edwards, who would be a good second round pick. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Nah, he had to do so many takes out there that his high eventually wore off and he was able to speak clearer.

You must not pay much attention to college football, Russell has been on people's radars since his freshman year. Not anywhere near where he went. Not even close to that level. Read what you wrote again, please. You said he was "literally nowhere" until his last couple games, which is completely untrue. I don't even know where you pulled that from, unless you just like playing expert. What you said was completely false. He was nowhere in terms of top 10. If you think he would have gone top 10 without the Sugar Bowl and his workout, you are sorely mistaken. What the hell? He was a top-10 pick before the Sugar Bowl. There's a reason the Sugar Bowl was looked at as a battle to go number one overall before the game (not retroactively). JaMarcus Russell had become a top-10 pick during the regular season. What you're saying is that JaMarcus needed a good workout and a good game to get him where he was...we can say that about EVERY player drafted. Without that Sugar Bowl, either Quinn or Calvin Johnson is wearing silver and black, and not only is Russell still on the board, but nobody is talking about him as a steal at this point like Quinn is.

Lynch goes to Buffalo.

You must not pay much attention to college football, Russell has been on people's radars since his freshman year. Not anywhere near where he went. Not even close to that level. Read what you wrote again, please. You said he was "literally nowhere" until his last couple games, which is completely untrue. I don't even know where you pulled that from, unless you just like playing expert. What you said was completely false. Russell went from unlikely to come out this year to top QB in the draft in the matter of 4 hours at the Sugar Bowl this year. He wasn't as high as you seem to think he was.

He definitely ranks up there behind Leinart dropping to #10 last year. You guys do realize that Marques Colston was drafted last year, right? We're talking about on draft day not looking back on the year.

He definitely ranks up there behind Leinart dropping to #10 last year.

The Panthers got Carr in the offseason. There is no need for them to pick Quinn.

What a shocker there. I can't believe Miami took Ginn. Huge surprise. Did anyone else see the look on Quinn's face when Goodell announced Ginn's name? Priceless.

Find some good chairs!!

Yeah, Man U's all but got this thing wrapped up. They can lose to Chelsea, tie either Man City or West Ham, and still win because they have a better goal differential than Chelsea. I can't believe Chelsea blew this game at home.

Ladies and gentlemen, the first disappointment of the NFL draft, JaMarcus Russell.