CaliforniaRaisin

How the hell did we get to talking about pitching mechanics? You can tell based on a pitcher's mechanics if he's a good pitcher or not? Just because you were a former pitcher doesn't mean you're improperly judging a pitcher if W/L is such an important criteria to you.

Michael Haynes was cut by the Saints yesterday.

Wins are pointless? I dont agree with that. Pitcher's wins? Yes they are. We're not talking about team wins. I never said you guys were talkng about team wins. Stop putting words in my mouth. Well then, pitching W-L is pointless. Lest we forget Roger Clemens' record last season and Randy Johnson's the season before. That's great that he's keeping a team in the game. But there are other, better stats to judge a pitcher. Much better. Wins are arbitrary, they can award a pitcher who did poorly as much as a pitcher who threw a perfect game. Great pitching outings can be looked at negatively if a pitcher's bullpen blows it or his offense can't score. Wins are a pointless stat, they don't properly judge a pitcher's performance. Maddux's streak is indeed impressive - his performance was better judged by other stats during that time.

I'd rather have 3 guys who K a lot if they offer more power and on base ability than the guys who put the ball in play. And if you really had to choose to keep just 2 guys who struck out 100 times, I'd rather have Dunn and Lee any day of the week.

Wins are pointless? I dont agree with that. Pitcher's wins? Yes they are. We're not talking about team wins.

David Palmer, plz. Bring him back to life.

Didn't want to create a new thread, so I tossed this in here:

Back injuries are the new oblique injury (and elbow injury and shoulder injury).

I have no problem with Felix taking the time off and not getting the call - he really needs to work on some things. Too bad the Cubs think one of the things he needs to work on in Mesa is his bunting. (At least they do think he needs to work on his patience and base stealing!)

91-94 mph FB, curve and change, good deception. He's going to start next year at AA and will probably find his way to Wrigley sometime late next season. His biggest problem is his control. He did gain velocity and his fastball is about 92-94 right now. The reason he wasn't projected to gain velocity was because he was already filled out - Sean credits his jump in velocity at least partly due to lifting weights last offseason. He did struggle with his control at AA. I'm sure he has a shot at the second base job, but I'm guessing the Cubs go with a veteran at second base. The Cubs didn't call him up because he's not on the 40-man roster and he doesn't need to be added for one more year - so why add him now and start his free agent clock for a Sept. call-up? I expect we'll see him get a cup of tea sometime next season too (just like Gallagher and Veal).

Wow, he pitched with it for two years!?

:mamoru:

Thanks, Jon. Francisco Liriano is ranked 141st this year (partly due to the missed time, but how much higher would he really go up? Heck, Johan Santana is ranked 60th in overall PAP). A couple guys ahead of Liriano? Carlos Marmol and Rich Hill.

The difference is that the Twins took just about every precaution with Liriano while the Cubs have been reckless with Prior, Wood and Zambrano. Aside from the pitch counts, I don't see any difference in the way the Twins dealt with Liriano's injury and the way the Cubs have dealt with Prior/Wood. Liriano has been watched very closely. He started out in the bullpen in his first full major league season and then went to the pen. His IP (had he not gotten hurt) would have been in line with his previous two minor league seasons (unlike, say, Prior, who added 50 innings from his rookie season to his second season). You noted the pitch counts. It's a big deal. Liriano is averaging 89.4 pitches/game. In 2003, Prior led the league in P/GS at 113.4. Wood had 109.1 in his rookie year in 1998. Z was at 106.6 P/GS in his first full season as a starter in 2003. You don't want to push young arms anywhere near a breaking point, especially in their first few seasons. The Twins were very careful bringing him back from the injury too - he was brought along slowly. The Cubs don't always seem to show this type of caution bringing back Prior and Wood (especially Wood in 1998 - what was the point of pitching him in Game 3?). You could say there wasn't as much information about pitcher abuse in 2002-03 or even 1998 as there is now. This certainly is true. There's much more information out there and the Twins aren't the only team going to such great lengths to protect their young pitchers. But Dusty still pushes Zamrbano and Hill in a wasted season.

He's a FA.

Ohman pumped his fist too, after striking out Saenz.

Was this after the first out?? Yes Santo speculating that Riot got hit in the finger by the ground ball He did (that's what the replay showed).

Ugh, c'mon Carlos.

The difference is that the Twins took just about every precaution with Liriano while the Cubs have been reckless with Prior, Wood and Zambrano.

No, I'm not missing the point. I'm happy he's gone too because I want the Cubs to win. But to keep demeaning the man is cruel and frankly, it's not the right thing to do. Posting his teams' W/L record in games he has played is demeaning and cruel? And not the right thing to do? It's like you've known me all my life! :)

Under the heading "NORTH SIDE BASEBALL." Frankly, I don't give two hoots how he's doing in Detroit. Actually, I do. I hope he does well and I wish him the best. Baseball Discussions is for discussion of any baseball-related matter (not specifically related to the NL Central or the White Sox). A thread about Neifi's play should be here. Sure, it's beating a dead horse, but apparently people still want to talk about him. Most people don't have a problem with Neifi the person, just Hendry's contract and Dusty's insistance on playing him. Most teams' fans can be like this, not just the Cubs.

Kent I assume? I really have no interest. Nor do I have a lot of interets in the soon to be 35 year old Ray Durham. I'd prefer this team do what it can to get younger impact players. I could live with a stop gap here or there, but I wouldn't be targeting them right now. Yeah, I meant Kent. I think age is finally going to hit him next season (I thought it had this season but he's had a great second half). If the Cubs go the power route at 2B, I'd prefer Soriano (and look for a stopgap in CF if you want Pie to return to AAA).

This is just Kuo's second big league start and he has control problems (he did have 6 shutout IP last time out). I smell a CG shutout.

Hahah, Pujols comps for Alvarez. Pedro is awesome.

No option, he's a free agent this offseason. He's also showing signs of aging rapidly.