UMFan83

Theres no doubt that Sosa improved with his plate discipline over the years, but you gotta figure a large majority of his OBP and BB increase was due to pitchers working around him to avoid his power. Either way, its generally the exception. From my understanding, it is very rare to see a player go from below average plate discipline to great plate discipline over the course of a career. It's a very inelastic skill.

I thought for some reason that it would be a bunch of reserves playing today. At least that's what I read somewhere. Edit: I didn't even know we had a Cory Bailey. Funny that hes starting today, but never made a start in his big league career according to BR.

OMG, I almost had flashbacks when I saw this thread.

Because that's not a fair comparison? Whether you want to admit it or not, age is relevant to the discussion. It's somewhat relevant, but still players tend to blossom at different ages. If you tried to compare Rich Hill at 24 and Dontrelle Willis at 24, there'd be no discussion

I give up: Josh Hamilton, OF Scott Shields, Disabled MR guy I get: Jason Bay, OF Aaron Rowand, OF A.J. Burnett, Soon-to-be Disabled SP guy Not that it matters much, but Holds matter in this league.

What do you get if you take out his hottest (july) and coldest month (september)? I guess I can't argue taking out his hottest month since my original post made the point of Theriot's stats without September. But at least there is semi-logical reasoning for his September. What do you attribute his hot month to? HGH?

Team Stats & Scoring 1. Number of Cubs wins, 2008 83 +0 2. Number of Cubs wins, Cardinals season series (15 games) 8 +100 3. Number of runs scored, 2008 790 +75 4. Number of runs allowed, 2008 750 +25 5. Final Placement in the NL Central Division 2nd +100 Total Possible Team Stat Points: 1300 +300 Player Stats & Scoring 1. Number of Aramis Ramirez Home Runs 34 +10 2. Number of Soriano Stolen Bases 20 +40 3. Kosuke Fukudome's OBP .368 +40 4. Derrek Lee's RBIs 105 +20 5. Ted Lilly's Wins 14 +20 6. Carlos Zambrano's ERA 3.75 +40 7. Rich Hill's Ks 190 +0 8. Ryan Dempster's Innings Pitched 160 +10 Total Number of Possible Player Stat Points: 400 +180 Bonus Questions I (20 points each) 1. Which will be higher: Rich Hill's K's or Rich Hill's Innings Pitched? K's +0 2. Which will be higher: Jon Lieber's starts or Jon Lieber's relief appearances? Starts +0 3. Which will be higher: Felix Pie's at-bats or Reed Johnson's at-bats? Pie +0 4. Who will have more HRs: Soto or Fukudome? Fukudome +0 5. Who will have more wins: Hill or Lilly? Lilly +30 6. Who will have a higher SLG: Soriano or Ramirez? Soriano +30 Total Possible MC Bonus Question Points: 180 +60 Bonus Questions II (30 points each) 1. Most HRs: Soriano +30 2. Highest OBP (min. 400 ABs): Lee +0 3. Lowest ERA (min. 150 IPs): Zambrano +0 4. Most saves: Wood +30 Total Possible Bonus II Question Points: 120 +60 Total Possible Points: 2000 600 The Annual Tiebreaker: Date of Lou Piniella's First Ejection (you may answer "none" to predict an ejection-free season for Lou) To be used only in the event of ties. April 23th @ COL

In 80 ABs at the end of 2005, Cedeno hit .300 with a .356 OBP In 54 ABs at the end of 2007, Soto hit .389 with a .433 OBP I don't get why a small sample size like that tells you much of anything.

He got more for Bedard. I think MacPhail proved that his annoying wait-it-out style got him a huge haul for Bedard, and he thinks he can do the same with Roberts. Thing is, Hendry is dumb enough to bite, and MacPhail knows it.

So if you don't buy Cedeno's numbers in the PCL, what do you think of Soto this year?

Interesting. Who knows. MacPhail didn't say its dead..

For some reason that sounds less definitive than Sullivan's take. Yeah its been overblown. I wonder if Hendry dumping Cintron was a tactic, and MacPhail coming out with this news is a counter tactic....but mostly I'm just going to pretend this is going away. Not that I necessarily believe it in this case, but a lot of times when deals are stalled, you hear this kind of talk just before something happens. Exactly. The thing is, you also hear this kind of talk before things break off as well.

That illustrates the problem. Normally, you'd like to introduce a player like Soto into an already stable lineup. Same with Pie. But they are introducing Soto and Pie into a lineup that is already plagued by Theriot. That's 3/8 of the lineup filled by guys who are either a question mark, or certain to stink. Doesn't leave much room for error. And that's quite pathetic on a team that costs $100m+ and has had problems at C, SS and CF for several years. I don't know about having a problem at C for several years. We had Barrett for 3.5 seasons, and considering the life of a catcher thats pretty stable. Of course one could argue how much Barrett actually contributed to the Cubs when you factor in his defense.

For some reason that sounds less definitive than Sullivan's take. Yeah its been overblown. I wonder if Hendry dumping Cintron was a tactic, and MacPhail coming out with this news is a counter tactic....but mostly I'm just going to pretend this is going away.

Why? If Roberts came, you would have Derosa and Fontenot as backup infielders. Still don't think the deal will happen, but cutting Cintron should not have any bearing on it. You're assuming Lou feels comfortable at SS with DeRosa or Fontenot for an extended amount of time should anything happen to Theriot... which doesn't appear to be the case. you know what appears to be the case? we are not getting roberts! :old_givebeer: Stop trying to be Mr. 300...we're still 6 away.

Why? If Roberts came, you would have Derosa and Fontenot as backup infielders. Still don't think the deal will happen, but cutting Cintron should not have any bearing on it. It does a little bit considering the Cubs don't consider either DeRosa or Fontenot as capable SS

That's not a MacPhail quote. That's Sullivan's own conclusion from the quote he gave. And what does it mean to pull an offer that the Cubs were clearly not going to accept? Seems like if it was really and truly dead MacPhail would have said directly "Brian Roberts won't be traded before Opening day" a la what the Marlins said about Mike Lowell in 03 two weeks before the trade deadline. OK well lets just pretend its not going to happen so we can all move on with our lives. We have a playoff contender to root for, even if I feel like over the last few days it is becoming increasingly evident that the Cubs are doing everything wrong. Fontenot over Murton? Marshall our LOOGY? Marquis still here?

Exactly. Keep the faith my brother... I'm still hoping we trade for Adam Dunn personally.

Like as Cubs fans we aren't used to wasting our lives on crap. Very true

I was happy when I first read this news, but now I'm pissed when I realized I wasted 4 months with this crap.

I got omitted! I am in between Cali and FriendlyConfines!

This is one of the big reasons the Cubs can't develop positional players. We have a player like Murton come up, and we purposely block him because we don't want to give him the opportunity to play anywhere. Sure he's not the best defensive player and would make a much better DH, but the man has hit every time he's been given a shot. Now we have Felix Pie, and already we've signed someone to take ABs away from him. For cripes sakes, let the kid play. We have 3 players with 40 HR potential in our lineup, a Japan league MVP, a ROY favorite, and a super-utility player that many people dubbed our X-factor last year. We can't find 550 ABs for your top prospect 4 years in a row? I understand we've been burned when we let players play (CPatt, Cedeno), but geez at some point you gotta let people play.

You have 11 pitchers listed. Lou has all but guaranteed a spot for Marshall. That's 12. OK Fixed.... Is Marshall going to be our LOOGY? I am almost positive Lou said recently that Hart would make the team.

That's possible and it's also possible that Theriot will work on his weaknesses and limit the holes. Exactly. The one of the real points for my original post is that we're stuck with Theriot. Instead of writing him off, is there a chance that he can be a positive?