that's what i'm saying. it's not like felix pie is jason dubois, a relatively polished player arriving in the big leagues who should already have a pretty good idea of how to hit big league pitching. pie is very talented, just like aramis was; aramis was clueless at the plate early on, but he had the natural ability and enough smarts to learn some plate discipline, and he ended up becoming a great player. unpolished players - and Lord knows that the cubs can churn these out, since the organization has no idea how to teach plate discipline - need more time to adjust at the big league level than guys who already have a good sense of pitch recognition and working the count. pie was pretty average in his first crack at iowa, then tore the league up in 2007. let's give him some time to see if he can make similar adjustments at this level. if not, then he's a bust, but there's no sense giving up on him right now. why don't you share the same patience with ronny cedeno? he's looked bad in his 1st 600 major league at bats, just like aramis, brandon phillips, jose reyes, and probably quite a bit more. but you've given up any hope of cedeno being good. cedeno had one full year of play at age 23; aramis' poor performances came at age 20 and 22. when he was 23, he hit .300 with 34 home runs. jose reyes was also beating up the big leagues by age 23. brandon phillips is probably your best example. i guess that guys like aramis, phillips and reyes were all regarded as elite-level prospects, guys who had outstanding tools, and their tools enabled them to overcome their early struggles and their poor approach at the plate. cedeno doesn't have top-level tools, and i don't think that he has the skill or the intuition to make the necessary adjustments at the big league level. pie might not either, but i hold out more hope for him. perhaps true. but i don't think the cubs should ask cedeno to be the next reyes, phillips, etc. they should ask him to out-produce theriot, which i think he can do pretty easily given a full time job. his 2006 season in the majors notwithstanding.