abuck1220

It's not all about 2008 though. If Pie gets that experience, he likely will be a better value than Murton by 09 (hit a little worse, but as long as it's only a little worse playing a tougher position with better defense will make up for that). i don't know if i agree with that though. my post was originally in response to this... which seemed to say that pie would be better than murton in '08.

that's why i'd rather have murton out there than pie.

actually, within about five minutes i posted prior's batting average against with runners on base vs. with the bases empty. since cuse's original comment was the prior faded after giving up baserunners, i'd say that refuted his position (that's not to take away from imb's great work, by the way). but, whatever, cuse = isaac newton, and i think the world's a better place now.

if both murton and pie get regular playing time this year (somewhere), i'd be willing to bet murton outperforms pie.

yes, truly, cuse deserves all the credit for imb's work. without his baseless assertion, imb's research would never exist. =D>

you brought up at least four false/meaningless issues in one post...congrats!

Just a gut call, but I really don't want 3 lefties in the rotation. I'd rather have the Cubs pursue Blanton - he'd be under team control for 3 seasons. but three righties is OK?

why is imb getting all this credit? i knew cuse was wrong, and i didn't even have to look it up.

So your answer is that I don't have anything to do with them becoming MLB pitchers but again, what does your statement say? Do you still say that this statement you made is true? yeah. 99.9% of high school pitchers have nothing in common with MLB pitchers. Where did you get these numbers? Sounds optimistic to say that 1 out of 1000 high school pitchers make the majors. That's a different stat. I have that they are male, pitchers and play baseball. I think that alone should count for more than nothing. well, i don't. the difference between some 17 year old boy who pitches after math class and a 30 year old professional athlete is immense. it doesn't matter anyway. you're entitled to your opinion. if you think your experience as a high school baseball coach gives you some kind of insight into the psyche of a professional athlete, you're entitled to think that. i'm just not buying it. and so far this insight hasn't helped you much since your theory about prior was pretty obviously proven incorrect.

except there is empirical evidence showing that prior does not collapse when runners get on base. cuse's opinion was refuted statistically. again, his position was refuted with statistics.

So your answer is that I don't have anything to do with them becoming MLB pitchers but again, what does your statement say? Do you still say that this statement you made is true? yeah. 99.9% of high school pitchers have nothing in common with MLB pitchers.

could you please try to be a little more clear about what it is exactly you're saying? i have no idea what the hell you're talking about. as far as that goes, i don't believe his experience as a high school coach gives him any insight into mark prior's psyche. that's my opinion.

how prior pitches with men on base is quantifiable and statistics do exist on the subject.

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board. what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous. he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something. yup. which is why I find the "beat down Cuse's opinion with the stats" arguement facetious. well, i'm sorry you're having a hard time following this. cuse's opinion was beat down with stats. he said prior "faded" once he started giving up hits. STATS were provided that showed, he was, in fact, better with guys on base. thus, cuse's opinion was wrong. how can it not be? if your opinion was that arod doesn't hit for power, his high slg % would prove you wrong. you could still believe he didn't hit for power (ie you could still have that opinion), but you'd be wrong.

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board. what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous. he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something.

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me. your experience as a baseball fan doenst qualify you to "prove him wrong" with statistics either. well, that makes no sense. i've never claimed my experience as a baseball fan proves him wrong. the stats, which have nothing to do with me, do a fine job of that. you know what, your right it was quite a stretch, but my point remains, what stat proves him being a high school coach gives him no opinoin to player evaluation? I am not even remotely aware of such a stat. granted I learn alot from reading posts from the likes of Meph and even you, but I have yet to see such a stat.. being a high school baseball coach gives you a 5.209 ability to evaluate a player quotient. being a garbage man gives you a -3.4350 ability to evaluate a player quotient. what are you talking about?

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me. He has seen plenty of pitchers lose it on the mound, and has a greater idea than the average fan of what little things to look for to get an indication of that. Sure, professionals lose it a lot less than high schoolers. If you know a person, that also makes it easier to tell, and obviously Cuse doesn't know Prior. Body language experts would tell you that doesn't matter all that much though. There are many traits that all people do in similar situations if you know what you're looking for, and Cuse has seen examples of it so many times that he has a better chance of noticing a little detail than almost anyone else. So yes, I do believe his profession gives him an edge on noticing something like this. Right now I disagree with him, but his opinion is not absurd. high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on. Exactly. Right. MLB and colleges get their numbers that are projected by PECOTA and Bill James when players are little leaguers and draft them by using those. how many major leaguers have you coached? You're point was the HS baseball players have about zero in common with MLB pitchers. the high school pitchers you've coached have zero in common with MLB pitchers. high schools other than the one you coach at. 0. as in the number of times you've interacted with mark prior. or the number of major league pitchers you've coached.

While I disagree with Cuse as far as Prior's toughness, you can look a player's makeup (6th tool, IMO) and get an idea of how mentally tough he is, how he handles failure, etc. yeah, except he's never met him. ever.

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me. He has seen plenty of pitchers lose it on the mound, and has a greater idea than the average fan of what little things to look for to get an indication of that. Sure, professionals lose it a lot less than high schoolers. If you know a person, that also makes it easier to tell, and obviously Cuse doesn't know Prior. Body language experts would tell you that doesn't matter all that much though. There are many traits that all people do in similar situations if you know what you're looking for, and Cuse has seen examples of it so many times that he has a better chance of noticing a little detail than almost anyone else. So yes, I do believe his profession gives him an edge on noticing something like this. Right now I disagree with him, but his opinion is not absurd. high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on. Exactly. Right. MLB and colleges get their numbers that are projected by PECOTA and Bill James when players are little leaguers and draft them by using those. how many major leaguers have you coached?

the players aren't children. they're responsible for their actions, and they clearly deserve most, if not all, of the blame.

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me. He has seen plenty of pitchers lose it on the mound, and has a greater idea than the average fan of what little things to look for to get an indication of that. Sure, professionals lose it a lot less than high schoolers. If you know a person, that also makes it easier to tell, and obviously Cuse doesn't know Prior. Body language experts would tell you that doesn't matter all that much though. There are many traits that all people do in similar situations if you know what you're looking for, and Cuse has seen examples of it so many times that he has a better chance of noticing a little detail than almost anyone else. So yes, I do believe his profession gives him an edge on noticing something like this. Right now I disagree with him, but his opinion is not absurd. high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me. your experience as a baseball fan doenst qualify you to "prove him wrong" with statistics either. well, that makes no sense. i've never claimed my experience as a baseball fan proves him wrong. the stats, which have nothing to do with me, do a fine job of that.

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

You guys are right and I'm wrong. What more is there to say? I want you, just once, to support your claim in some way other than some blanket statement about it being your opinion. Is that a lot to ask? Wait a minute. Opinions must be supported by facts or stats now? Wow, I'm totally out of the loop. yeah, good opinions usually are.

I have you to help me do it. And I'm not ashamed to ask for help. Is that wrong? do you have multiple personalities or something? you just said... and i simply pointed to where you said... ...which appears to be an instance when you said you "wouldn't understand the numbers."