Backtobanks

The more time Castro is on the bench, the less we'll get for him in a trade. Add that to his salary and you'll be lucky to get a middle-level prospect or two. Him sitting for a third of a year or whatever role he has isnt going to affect what other teams see him as one way or the other. Either they'll show interest or they won't. The time for trading for prospects is done, if we deal him, I'd be shocked if its not for a major league return. Other teams have surpluses and/or guys that need a change of scenery too. Lots of teams may show interest in Castro, but the interest level will depend on the price. If you can get him for next to nothing, you'll have teams lined up. If you want a useful ML piece or a high ranking prospect, there will be a lot less teams.

The more time Castro is on the bench, the less we'll get for him in a trade. Add that to his salary and you'll be lucky to get a middle-level prospect or two.

Here's hoping the temporary benching will help him "right the ship". Castro on the bench for the rest of the season might help in the short term, but not in the long term.

Yea, he's hit curves an sliders pretty well. . . . the change up has been a killer. I should have been more specific when I said "off speed." He's freakishly quick. . . .he shouldn't have any problem letting the ball get deeper. That just screams that it's more of a lack of confidence / mental thing than a mechanical thing. What still amazes me is that he's hitting like a pitcher for a month, but with 3 ball counts pitchers still throw junk on the corners. They're still afraid to give him a fastball. With the problems he's been having, why wouldn't you throw him junk on the corners?

yeah but imagine how bad Lester would have been without Rossy? Yeah last year after leaving Ross in Boston, he only posted 2.35 ERA with 71 Ks and 16 BBs with 1.07 WHIP for an ERA+ of 159.

They don't have infinite money, but I think Theo can get anybody he wants. We've talked/joked about poor Tom Ricketts for quite awhile, but I think Theo has his plan and a bottom line figure as to how much a player is worth. When Theo was signed, he said he had complete autonomy over the baseball side of the operation and I still believe that. He got The FO people he wanted, got the best manager in baseball, got one of the best TOR FAs last year, and is rumored to be in on Price over the winter. He has said all along that when the time is right, the money will be spent. Apparently, he doesn't think the time is right just yet.

That doesn't suddenly mean that he gets a pass for being awful for those 3 years. You obviously don't view the W-L of those years through the same lense as you do now, but they have to be good enough to justify it going forward. Whether he gets a pass is tied into the future of this team. As of right now it's a huge incomplete. He signed a 5 year contract, so I assume he thought he could fully implement his plan within 5 years. I know his contract will be renewed, but he is in year 4.

For all of the avid supporters of Theo and his plan, I find it interesting that people still need to bring up Hendry's name 4 years later in a discussion of the FO.

Exactly. Does theo deserve praise? His goal, and the reason for sacrificing 3 seasons was to build a team of young cost controlled stars that makes the playoffs most years. Well he's built a team of young cost controlled players that is in the thick of the playoff hunt, and probably a year earlier than originally outlined. So if you measure the job the FO is done based on the results, he's on his way to looking pretty successful. Like I said earlier I think it's fair if you reserve judgment and praise for 3-4 more years to see how many times they make the playoffs/World Series. Because yes it is a big gamble to punt 3 years to execute the plan. If they only make the playoffs 1-2 times and most of the young players are a bust, then yes Theo failed imo. I agree with you, but I do have higher expectations. My expectations are at least a WS appearance, if not a WS win in the next few years. I know this gets us into the "playoffs are a crapshoot" conversation, but squeaking into the wild card once or twice wouldn't be worth 3 years of punting.

So if we don't lose Castro or Montero we have between $10 - $25 million to add a SP, CF, bench bat, and a bullpen arm. So much for Price or any other TOR pitcher. A Price level signing/contract may not be possible (personally I think it's ridiculous they couldn't add a Zimmerman or Price for contract reasons but that's not the point for now), but if they are more interested in the pursuit of a young controllable arm (Carrasco, Ross, Gray in a long shot, etc) it's possible we can take care of most of those thing and stay around $20 million. That was my point initially. Trading for someone like Carrasco gives you a young controllable arm to fit in your budget for the next 6 years and if it costs Baez, so be it.

So if we don't lose Castro or Montero we have between $10 - $25 million to add a SP, CF, bench bat, and a bullpen arm. So much for Price or any other TOR pitcher.

A point that I haven't seen posted yet is that getting into the playoffs this year might help all of our young players with the pressure they will face next year when there will be higher expectations. The value of a WC game or playoff series could be invaluable to Russell, Rizzo, Bryant, Arrieta, etc.

So now our window of opportunity starts in 2019? That's not what he said; that's the year talked about that the Ricketts-owned Cubs will pretty much be free of many of the nebulous financial restrictions hanging over them now. He didn't say anything about them not being able to field competitive teams in the meantime. Actually, he specifically said, "The good thing is we're finally set up to where we CAN work efficiently and put a strong team on the field with a 100-120 top end type payroll." But that doesn't fit the bitter B2B storyline. With all of the rumors about signing Price over the winter, it's going to be hard to put a strong team on the field when your 2 top pitchers are half of your payroll.

So now our window of opportunity starts in 2019? :banghead: What better way is there to handle a budget than trading for cost controlled pitchers (Ross, Carrosco, etc.)? I guess saving money on minor leaguers with the hope that eventually make to the majors is the preferred method.

My guess is this is the main reasons they were so focused on players with control. They didn't want to expend too many resources on rentals, so they went for the home run players. They didn't land any of them, so at the last minute they pivoted to rentals that wouldn't cost very much. It feels like they saw this season as a good opportunity, but the seasons upcoming as even better. So they tried to balance out those two thoughts. But instead of balancing the two thoughts, they placed all the weight on future seasons. Again. I don't think I agree. If they had placed all their weight on future seasons, they would have sold. There was never even a hint of that from the front office. They were buying all the way, trying to make a splash but being cautious about it. There are three main types of players available at the deadline. Quality rentals, players with control, and non-quality rentals. The Cubs refused to do the first, chased heavily after the second, and ended up with the third type. Is that the right move? I don't know. Maybe they should prioritize this season over others. But the front office hardly threw away the season. IMO, they clearly cared about this season, even if they might still care about other seasons a little more. They wanted to upgrade the team for this year.[/quote What were they going to sell? A SS having a terrible season, but signed long term? A LH starter turned reliever because of poor performance? A great defensive catcher hitting below .200? If they really cared about this season, they would have made an impact move. They upgraded the team enough this year to probably get guarantee the 3rd WC spot. It's far from a sure thing that Baez is going to come up and play the way we hope and that we're getting a solid rotation starter for next year. That means next year we could have gaping holes at CF, 2B, SP, with question marks in LF and closer.

My guess is that in the framework of Baez + ???? + ???? for Ross + ???? that the Cubs wanted to include Kimbrel and the Padres countered with adding Castro to the Baez package.

If Kyle is being a meatball your statement is being an imbecile. It is an incredibly stupid sentiment. Nope. They're looking to keep their young prospects and allow them to develop with time. Why sell the farm for a rental or an older vet that has a 2-4 year shelf life? That's completely reasonable to me. All of us and the FO (according to rumors) were hoping for a young controllable pitcher and not a rental or an older vet. That's what you "sell the farm for".

If they can sign one of the TOR pitchers in the offseason and Baez hits, "the plan" will be hitting on all cylinders. The team remains competitive and we have a free option on Castro. And if neither happens, we need a 2B, CF, and solid SP and hope that Coghlan/Denorfia continue their decent seasons next year.

Rizzo & Bryant have slumped, but it might just be a case of coming back to earth from early astounding numbers. With the long season players go in and out of slumps, but unfortunately the Cubs aren't deep enough to cover for the players in a slump. When you're counting on Coghlan, Denorfia, and Schwarber (an inexperienced rookie) to provide consistency to the offense, you're in trouble. Also, a team that depends on a lot of hitters with a ton of strikeouts is probably more likely to hit these slumps. I agree that they need a legitimate veteran upgrade on offense along with a #5 starter. The #5 starter can be a rental, but the off season has to provide the veteran offensive upgrade and a solid controllable starter.

Well said. The whole idea of the Cubs having some inside track to signing Price is ridiculous. If the money is close, then maybe. Otherwise follow the money.

I don't think the Astros are willing to finish out the year with Valbuena as their starting third baseman. He's been fine in the field, and for a while his incredibly odd bating stats were good enough. While he still leads the team in HRs, he hasn't hit one in more than a month. Meanwhile his average remains below .200 and he has an equally atrocious OBP. Lowry represents and immediate offensive upgrade at 3B at no cost to the Astros. I think the Astros will add another pitcher and maybe a low rent corner outfielder to hold down Springer's spot until the end of August. They'll use their deep farm system, not major leaguers, to make those deals. So that's what you do with an accumulation of prospects.

If we wait long enough many of our trade chips (Castro, Baez, Alcantara, etc.) could lose most of their trade vale.

This Hamels guy looked pretty good today. I wonder if he's available. LOL

Yeah, the difference here is that Carlos Gomez is still really good. Even if you go all the way back to 2007 when Gomez was a slap hitting leadoff guy, he's still the 9th most valuable CF'er in baseball during that span. That's over the last 8 years through today. 9th. And he's only been elite level for the last two seasons. But let's just go back to 2012 when he had his breakout year and started hitting for power in the 2nd half of that year which carried over into his 7.5 win 2013... http://i.imgur.com/8PZKunZ.png 3rd best CF'er in baseball. The two above him are perennial MVP candidates and two of the greatest players of this generation. So if you wanna take franchise cornerstones and probable future HOF'ers out of the equation, Gomez has been the best CF'er among the rest of the league since 2012 up until today. So yeah, Carlos Gomez is good. Really [expletive] good. Guys like him (elite CF'ers that aren't rentals) usually don't become available outside of free agency. If Gomez is available, you get him and you extend him immediately. This is going to be such a bad reply that people won't respect............but just watch him for a good amount of time. Just watch. He's not as good as you think he is, and the past accomplishments don't mean anything moving forward. I remember in September of Pujols' free agent year remarking here on how after watching him, he just didn't look the same. And of course, nobody agreed. Why would they? The black and white numbers all showed he was the man. I'm not sure how many Brewers games you can or would even want to watch. But unfortunately, I have to. And Carlos Gomez is not that good. When I say not THAT good, it doesn't mean he's not good. It just means I think the praise he is receiving here is too high. Feel free to bump this in the future. I have no problem being wrong. But I don't think I will be. Also, one other note.....when you said that the difference is that Carlos Gomez is still really good, wasn't Upton still really good at one time? Meaning, that November when he was a free agent, wouldn't people have been able to post his WAR when anybody questioned wanting Upton for the contract he was going to get? ETA: I'd take Lo Cain over Gomez right now all day. Only problem is Cain isn't available and rumors say Gomez is.

I realize I'm in the minority, but I don't really want Gomez and I actually think he'd be a player many would get frustrated at. I understand how great his WAR was for a few seasons, but he's just not as good as the package it would take to get him. I don't know what his defense rates out, but if you watch him on a fairly regular basis, you can see how bad of angles he takes on balls and how many Castro-type errors he makes where you're like, "WTF?" He also has to be one of the worst overall base runners I've ever seen, and his injury history is starting to build a bit. I'm not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade, but I figure the Brewers will want a lot and I just don't see him being worth it. Again, though, I acknowledge I'm in the minority. Hell, I might be the only one who doesn't want him. I'd rather just get Parra from them for a B-level prospect. Trading for Parra leaves us with a hole in CF for next year. Gomez is a superior player and signed through next year at a reasonable cost.