Backtobanks

I don't think Hendry had a completely different situation. There was absolutely zilch on the major league team when he inherited it, and they had one of the best farm systems in baseball. Epstein had to take it a step farther, because they had zilch on the major league roster and the farm system was weak, also. I gave Hendry credit for adding talent to the major league roster without giving up the best of the prospects in order to create the success he did in 2003-2004. However, the organizational philosophy on what will make the team succeed going forward took a horrific turn under Hendry and Baker's watch. Abusing pitchers and not understanding the value of a walk and valuing said walks in relation to line up construction was the beginning of the end of his future as a GM. Looking at the line ups Baker was throwing out there day to day was vomit inducing if you look back on them today. Neifi Perez batted 1st or 2nd more than 400 times in 2005. There is just no defending that. He traded Greg Maddux at the trade deadline for Cesar "[expletive]" Izturis. The list of bad decisions became comical at one point to the point we all thought he was purposely trying to sabotage his own career, which he basically did. I certainly don't see ever hiring him to be a GM again after that. My apologies for making anyone remember any of this. The zilch that Epstein inherited netted the Cubs (and their farm system) Rizzo, Grimm, Ramierez, Hendricks, Villaneuva, Russell, Castro, and Baez.

Whenever this kind of discussion comes up, some of you forget that the situation with Hendry was completely different. He believed in young players and deserves some credit for the farm system during his tenure, but the Tribune company gave him the money and pushed him into a "win now" mode. He never was given complete autonomy like Theo. Also, many of our young players now came from trading the veterans that Theo inherited from Hendry. The time came when there had to be a change and Theo stepped in to make the necessary changes. Three years later, everything is coming up roses. We'll never know whether it could have been done a different way or whether anyone else could have done it, so let's just enjoy it.

It's not a teen years thing or dumb [expletive], it's just fans being fickle. This player is great until we find a reason not to like him. Same with a manager, gm, or owner.

Well that's not necessarily true at all. I should have posted it in green.

From MLBTR: Padres closer Craig Kimbrel has been claimed on revocable waivers by an unknown club, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter link). However, a club official tells Rosenthal that the Padres have no intention of trading Kimbrel. We know it wasn't the Cubs because they just acquired Rodney.

B2B and SSR might have to find a new team I was a Cub fan long before Hendry, so that ain't happening.

Is that like Bette Davis Eyes?

Since there's quite a bit of money left on his contract, so I guess it all depends on what the Phillies will eat. Either way, I can't believe it would be anything significant.

The more time Castro is on the bench, the less we'll get for him in a trade. Add that to his salary and you'll be lucky to get a middle-level prospect or two. Him sitting for a third of a year or whatever role he has isnt going to affect what other teams see him as one way or the other. Either they'll show interest or they won't. The time for trading for prospects is done, if we deal him, I'd be shocked if its not for a major league return. Other teams have surpluses and/or guys that need a change of scenery too. Lots of teams may show interest in Castro, but the interest level will depend on the price. If you can get him for next to nothing, you'll have teams lined up. If you want a useful ML piece or a high ranking prospect, there will be a lot less teams.

The more time Castro is on the bench, the less we'll get for him in a trade. Add that to his salary and you'll be lucky to get a middle-level prospect or two.

Here's hoping the temporary benching will help him "right the ship". Castro on the bench for the rest of the season might help in the short term, but not in the long term.

Yea, he's hit curves an sliders pretty well. . . . the change up has been a killer. I should have been more specific when I said "off speed." He's freakishly quick. . . .he shouldn't have any problem letting the ball get deeper. That just screams that it's more of a lack of confidence / mental thing than a mechanical thing. What still amazes me is that he's hitting like a pitcher for a month, but with 3 ball counts pitchers still throw junk on the corners. They're still afraid to give him a fastball. With the problems he's been having, why wouldn't you throw him junk on the corners?

yeah but imagine how bad Lester would have been without Rossy? Yeah last year after leaving Ross in Boston, he only posted 2.35 ERA with 71 Ks and 16 BBs with 1.07 WHIP for an ERA+ of 159.

They don't have infinite money, but I think Theo can get anybody he wants. We've talked/joked about poor Tom Ricketts for quite awhile, but I think Theo has his plan and a bottom line figure as to how much a player is worth. When Theo was signed, he said he had complete autonomy over the baseball side of the operation and I still believe that. He got The FO people he wanted, got the best manager in baseball, got one of the best TOR FAs last year, and is rumored to be in on Price over the winter. He has said all along that when the time is right, the money will be spent. Apparently, he doesn't think the time is right just yet.

That doesn't suddenly mean that he gets a pass for being awful for those 3 years. You obviously don't view the W-L of those years through the same lense as you do now, but they have to be good enough to justify it going forward. Whether he gets a pass is tied into the future of this team. As of right now it's a huge incomplete. He signed a 5 year contract, so I assume he thought he could fully implement his plan within 5 years. I know his contract will be renewed, but he is in year 4.

For all of the avid supporters of Theo and his plan, I find it interesting that people still need to bring up Hendry's name 4 years later in a discussion of the FO.

Exactly. Does theo deserve praise? His goal, and the reason for sacrificing 3 seasons was to build a team of young cost controlled stars that makes the playoffs most years. Well he's built a team of young cost controlled players that is in the thick of the playoff hunt, and probably a year earlier than originally outlined. So if you measure the job the FO is done based on the results, he's on his way to looking pretty successful. Like I said earlier I think it's fair if you reserve judgment and praise for 3-4 more years to see how many times they make the playoffs/World Series. Because yes it is a big gamble to punt 3 years to execute the plan. If they only make the playoffs 1-2 times and most of the young players are a bust, then yes Theo failed imo. I agree with you, but I do have higher expectations. My expectations are at least a WS appearance, if not a WS win in the next few years. I know this gets us into the "playoffs are a crapshoot" conversation, but squeaking into the wild card once or twice wouldn't be worth 3 years of punting.

So if we don't lose Castro or Montero we have between $10 - $25 million to add a SP, CF, bench bat, and a bullpen arm. So much for Price or any other TOR pitcher. A Price level signing/contract may not be possible (personally I think it's ridiculous they couldn't add a Zimmerman or Price for contract reasons but that's not the point for now), but if they are more interested in the pursuit of a young controllable arm (Carrasco, Ross, Gray in a long shot, etc) it's possible we can take care of most of those thing and stay around $20 million. That was my point initially. Trading for someone like Carrasco gives you a young controllable arm to fit in your budget for the next 6 years and if it costs Baez, so be it.

So if we don't lose Castro or Montero we have between $10 - $25 million to add a SP, CF, bench bat, and a bullpen arm. So much for Price or any other TOR pitcher.

A point that I haven't seen posted yet is that getting into the playoffs this year might help all of our young players with the pressure they will face next year when there will be higher expectations. The value of a WC game or playoff series could be invaluable to Russell, Rizzo, Bryant, Arrieta, etc.

So now our window of opportunity starts in 2019? That's not what he said; that's the year talked about that the Ricketts-owned Cubs will pretty much be free of many of the nebulous financial restrictions hanging over them now. He didn't say anything about them not being able to field competitive teams in the meantime. Actually, he specifically said, "The good thing is we're finally set up to where we CAN work efficiently and put a strong team on the field with a 100-120 top end type payroll." But that doesn't fit the bitter B2B storyline. With all of the rumors about signing Price over the winter, it's going to be hard to put a strong team on the field when your 2 top pitchers are half of your payroll.

So now our window of opportunity starts in 2019? :banghead: What better way is there to handle a budget than trading for cost controlled pitchers (Ross, Carrosco, etc.)? I guess saving money on minor leaguers with the hope that eventually make to the majors is the preferred method.

My guess is this is the main reasons they were so focused on players with control. They didn't want to expend too many resources on rentals, so they went for the home run players. They didn't land any of them, so at the last minute they pivoted to rentals that wouldn't cost very much. It feels like they saw this season as a good opportunity, but the seasons upcoming as even better. So they tried to balance out those two thoughts. But instead of balancing the two thoughts, they placed all the weight on future seasons. Again. I don't think I agree. If they had placed all their weight on future seasons, they would have sold. There was never even a hint of that from the front office. They were buying all the way, trying to make a splash but being cautious about it. There are three main types of players available at the deadline. Quality rentals, players with control, and non-quality rentals. The Cubs refused to do the first, chased heavily after the second, and ended up with the third type. Is that the right move? I don't know. Maybe they should prioritize this season over others. But the front office hardly threw away the season. IMO, they clearly cared about this season, even if they might still care about other seasons a little more. They wanted to upgrade the team for this year.[/quote What were they going to sell? A SS having a terrible season, but signed long term? A LH starter turned reliever because of poor performance? A great defensive catcher hitting below .200? If they really cared about this season, they would have made an impact move. They upgraded the team enough this year to probably get guarantee the 3rd WC spot. It's far from a sure thing that Baez is going to come up and play the way we hope and that we're getting a solid rotation starter for next year. That means next year we could have gaping holes at CF, 2B, SP, with question marks in LF and closer.

My guess is that in the framework of Baez + ???? + ???? for Ross + ???? that the Cubs wanted to include Kimbrel and the Padres countered with adding Castro to the Baez package.

If Kyle is being a meatball your statement is being an imbecile. It is an incredibly stupid sentiment. Nope. They're looking to keep their young prospects and allow them to develop with time. Why sell the farm for a rental or an older vet that has a 2-4 year shelf life? That's completely reasonable to me. All of us and the FO (according to rumors) were hoping for a young controllable pitcher and not a rental or an older vet. That's what you "sell the farm for".