Backtobanks

Why do I have the feeling that the Cards will get some OF hitting .250 and he will become a solid .290-.300 hitter for the next few years.

I doubt very much whether we could get Youklis and Ramirez for Mitre and Dempster. If we could, I would make that trade in a heartbeat. Also, you might be able to slide Cedeno over to 2nd when Walker leaves.

I asked that same question back on 6/23 and all of the responses were pretty negative about getting him.

If they have Welly and Mitre caliber prospects, they should be pitching them in the Majors. Their pitching is lousy. You do realize that Mitre (1.36 WHIP, .261 BAA, and 5.52 ERA) and Wellemeyer (1.42WHIP, .231 BAA, 4.74 ERA) don't look like top caliber players to a lot of teams. They may be players that might become that...and both have shown the ability to dominate, neither have done so. What about those two would make Texas think that they could help them enough this year to justify trading away a piece of their future? The Rangers rotation prior to Rogers injury and suspension was: Rogers (2. 46 ERA, 1.28 WHP, 253 BAA) PArk (5.50 ERA, 1.65 WHIP, 296 BAA) C. Young (3.33 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, .245 BAA) C. Wilson (7.15 ERA, 2.12 WHip, .715 BAA) R. Rodriguez (3.65 ERA, 1.22 Whip, .276 BAA) Mitre and Welly are better than Park and Wilson, but not any better than Young and Rodriguez. The Rangers released Drese who has performed at or near Mitre's level this year because of inconsistencies. On the farm they have Thomas Diamond (not quite ready) and lefty John Danks. They've shuttled Juan Dominguez back and forth and he's about Welly talent-wise. Welly and Mitre aren't going to be enough to get a key piece of their team. They might give us Delucci for one of them. Throw in both and an outfielder and we could have Hidalgo. We just don't have the player that would make them trade Mench. They don't want quanity, they'll want quality. Zambrano is the closest we have to what they're looking for. We wouldn't, nor shouldn't do that. That's why there isn't a match between the two teams to net Mench.[/quote I still think that Welly, Mitre, Rusch, & Williams would be #3, #4, & #5 starters on quite a few teams in the majors. The trade I mentioned would not necessarily help the Rangers this year (since they aren't going to win the Division this year anyhow), but would help in the next 2-4 years when some of their youngsters mature along with players like Welly & Mitre. Also, I would think there are some GMs who realize that Welly & Mitre have been shuffled from starting to relieving to the minors and back again. Put them in a consistent role and they might realize the potential that they show.

If they have Welly and Mitre caliber prospects, they should be pitching them in the Majors. Their pitching is lousy.

Well, let's tinker with the deal a little bit. Mitre, Dubois, & Welly for Mench & a prospect. I've stated in numerous threads that the Rangers aren't interested in moving Mench unless they get a can't miss stud pitcher. Volume will not overwhelm them. If we asked for Mench, they'd ask for Zambrano and the discussions end right there. The Rangers are quite obviously off their rockers then. As good as Mench is (and he's good enough for my fantasy team, 3 HR, woo!), he's not that good. He's also already 27. I didn't say the Rangers expect to get Zambrano for Mench. But they would want a young starter that has seen success at the major league level if they were to trade Mench. (They have no intentions of trading him.) The Cubs just don't match up there. Mitre hasn't seen enough success. Williams will have to prove he's found it again. Those players don't have the ceiling that the Rangers would want. Our farm hands aren't high enough ceiling or don't have enough experience. The Rangers would seek to look elsewhere. The plan the Rangers have were to be contenders in 2006 with the young core of Mench, Nix, Tex, Young, and Blaylock. They prefer to keep all five of those. They will look to develop pitchers from their system or sign others or trade without giving up one of those five. To trade one of those five you're going to have to blow them away with quality not quanity. Yeah - more and more on this bd. I see trade props. that are basically an all-you-can-eat buffet of former prospecs who we have soured on or who have been underwhelming as of late, for example, Mitre, Dubois, Welly, etc. [/b] But who knows what Mitre, Dubois, Welly, etc. could do in the right situation and given a starting job. They don't necessarily fit in the Cubs plans because we have 5 starting pitchers (or 6 or 7) and a manager who doesn't feel comfortable playing rookies. Also, the Cubs consider themselves contenders so they try to go with the proven players. If I were an opposing GM with a team built for the future, I would certainly look at a chance to get players like Mitre, Dubois, Welly, etc. As for who I would trade for these prospects, I would have to look at the strengths and needs of my team and what kind of Major League ready prospects my farm system has.

I would certainly inquire about Mench and offer a combination of players Mitre, Welly, Dubois, Kelton, Guzman, etc. If they start asking for Zambrano, then you say goodbye, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

I still say that I'd love to have Dunn in the Cubs' lineup, but offering half of our farm system for him is ridiculous.

Yes, my original post suggested a 3-way trade in which we ended up with Mench and Rogers went to another contender. I think it's great that Hart & Showalter want to keep the kids together, but they desparately need pitching for this year and in the future. Trading an offensive "kid" for 2-3 pitching "kids" certainly would help make them contenders next year and in the future. Besides, they have lots of offense.

I need your help in figuring out a trade to send some pitchers (like Mitre, Welly, Rusch, or Williams) to Texas (who really needs pitching) in a 3-way (or 4-way) trade with Texas trading problem child Kenny Rogers to some contender who needs a strong lefty starter. Somehow in this deal, we get Kevin Mench. You've got the basics, now get those brains working so that we end up with Mench.

I'd even add Dope and maybe even the Gooze to those 3. Let's slow down a little. We're talking about Adam Dunn, not Babe Ruth. To give up 5 players for him is ridiculous. I know about all of those fancy numbers that some of you guys throw around, but the bottom line is he's still hitting .243. Yes, I would like him on the team for the OBP and power, but his strike outs and BA are in Corey Patterson Land (without the speed and defense). Dubois, Mitre, & Welly are plenty.

Well, let's tinker with the deal a little bit. Mitre, Dubois, & Welly for Mench & a prospect.

Mitre and Dubois for Kevin Mench. Good, young, and cheap outfielder for many years. If other players are needed for "filler" in the trade, feel free to add them to the deal.

Besides the health issue, the difference between Wood and Maddux always appeared to me to be Maddux keeps the Cubs in the game and Wood does something to keep the other team in the game. This is not a knock on Wood, but it seems that whenever he pitches the Cubs are up by one, tied, or losing (I realize that's not always Wood's fault). While the number of wins is not always the best way to measure a starting pitcher's success, it is still the one that everyone points to (20-win season, 300-win career, etc.).

I know he is overpriced this year and next (how many players aren't overpriced in today's market), but Maddux is well on his way to another 15-16 win season and will probably lead the team in victories. Maybe the Cubs give him more run support or something, but the bottom line is that the Cubs have a better than average chance of winning when he starts a game. He is amazing to watch with his underwhelming stuff, while all of our pitchers with overwhelming stuff walk batters, throw wild piches, and spend time on the DL. I would love to be one of our young pitchers and be able to listen to and observe him on a daily basis.

We had better be talking about the Wild Card because there is no way we're going to catch the Cards. We can and must play better but the Cards have shown over the last 1 1/2 years that they don't go into a prolonged slump. What does it tell you when we lost ground to the Cards while Rolen was on the DL.

Except Kotsay is an OF and Hairston is an IF who plays the OF. Also, as someone mentioned in another post, getting someone like Kotsay opens up the trade possibilities with Corey Patterson.

I'll be sure to bump after every good Maddux outing. Don't be ridiculous. Problem is, there haven't been that many good outings. There have been a couple of good games, a large number of average performances and then a couple of bad games. Maddux has had an average ERA+ of around 109 the last two years; Suppan has been around 103. Given that Suppan is 30 and Maddux is 40, it's likely that Maddux will continue regressing whereas Suppan may only regress a bit. Therefore, it's very reasonable to expect Maddux to pitch about as well as Jeff Suppan next year... and if the option vests for Maddux, he'll likely be making at least twice what Suppan is making. It's a terrible waste of $4-5M for a team that doesn't have unlimited resources. Backtobanks, the problem is that every other team in baseball knows Maddux is not worth anywhere close to $9M next year. If the Cubs want to trade him, and it appears his option will vest, they'll have to eat about $5M of next year's salary and possibly some of his salary for the rest of this year as well. A prospect would be nice, but I don't know how great of a prospect we'll get for a guy who isn't much better than average at this point. The best case scenario for the Cubs would be to simply not have his option vest next year, IMO. I still think that a contender with a decent bullpen and offense will look at Maddux's record as a second-half pitcher and be interested. If the Cubs have to pay $4-5 million next year, that's still clearing about $9 million off of the Cubs coffers in the next year and half. You put him in Petco Park and he could very well be a #3 starter for this year and next.

I'm a big Maddux fan, but if Mitre continues pitching the way he has the last 2 games Maddux becomes expendable. A contender would love to have someone like Maddux and the $13.5 million over the next year and a half would look good in the Cub coffers. Also, if a contender really wants Maddux, the Cubs might get a top prospect or a role player to help the team. With Rusch and Mitre pitching well, Zambrano and Maddux being their usual selves, and Wood and Prior returning soon, the Cubs are in a good position for a trade.

And even if he does sign with the Cubs he'll somehow end up sucking, causing the fans to hate him which will cause us to trade him to get Andy Pratt back. Or if the Cubs sign him his arm will suddenly fall off.

*Closer: Time will tell, but at present it looks plausible to go with Dempster as a mid-price guy rather than spending for a big-ticket Wagner type. Besides, if we show any interest in Wagner, his arm will probably fall off (see Percival, Benitez, Dotel, etc.).

I totally agree. If the Cubs pitching staff was healthy and Maddux really was our 4th/5th starter, I think most people would be satisfied with his performance. When Maddux becomes your 2nd/3rd starter, then you have problems. Jon Garland has pitched great this year, but he's facing the other team's 4th/5th starter and not their ace. With decent run support and help from the bullpen, Maddux can do a decent job. You know what to expect from Maddux, 3-4 runs in 6-7 innings. Not great, but not bad for a 4th/5th starter.

I can't believe Dusty sent Holla up to bunt in the 9th inning. I'm sure Cedeno or Maddux are much better bunters than Holla.