rchap24

Drew's contract is off the books by 2011. Soriano's contract is off the books by 2014. Injury prone or not, Drew has a shorter contract, thus IMO would have more value to the Cubs, then a semi-productive healthy Soriano. Soriano is a better player. Drew is statistically a pretty decent player, but we dont need another average outfield how will that help us out in anyway more than Soriano does? I don't think anyone is really arguing that Drew is better than Soriano (which he may be, that's not really the point of the thread as I see it) rather they are arguing that saving about 20 million a year from 2012-2014 is worth whatever loss of production there is (although it's debatable that there would even be a loss of production). Personally I feel that replacing Soriano with a more OBP-centric player would actually benefit the team, even if there is a pretty large decrease in power. Especially considering Soriano is put into the leadoff spot in the order. Yea I agree that that it would be cheaper to get Drew over Soriano, but what am I basing Soriano being better than Drew you ask? Umm probably because besides like 2 years in Drew's career hes either been hurt or has been an above average corner outfielder. I know Soriano has had injuries since hes been on the Cubs, but at full strength he has so much more to offer. What you typed here doesn't seem like a reply to what I said. Actually was agreeing with your point that Drew is cheaper for a shorter time, but I still think that the trade would not be intelligent cause Soriano is a better player. I don't feel like trading one of our best players if it's just to get a guy who a little worse than him and a little cheaper.

Drew's contract is off the books by 2011. Soriano's contract is off the books by 2014. Injury prone or not, Drew has a shorter contract, thus IMO would have more value to the Cubs, then a semi-productive healthy Soriano. Soriano is a better player. Drew is statistically a pretty decent player, but we dont need another average outfield how will that help us out in anyway more than Soriano does? I don't think anyone is really arguing that Drew is better than Soriano (which he may be, that's not really the point of the thread as I see it) rather they are arguing that saving about 20 million a year from 2012-2014 is worth whatever loss of production there is (although it's debatable that there would even be a loss of production). Personally I feel that replacing Soriano with a more OBP-centric player would actually benefit the team, even if there is a pretty large decrease in power. Especially considering Soriano is put into the leadoff spot in the order. Yea I agree that that it would be cheaper to get Drew over Soriano, but what am I basing Soriano being better than Drew you ask? Umm probably because besides like 2 years in Drew's career hes either been hurt or has been an above average corner outfielder. I know Soriano has had injuries since hes been on the Cubs, but at full strength he has so much more to offer.

Drew's contract is off the books by 2011. Soriano's contract is off the books by 2014. Injury prone or not, Drew has a shorter contract, thus IMO would have more value to the Cubs, then a semi-productive healthy Soriano. Soriano is a better player. Drew is statistically a pretty decent player, but we dont need another average outfield how will that help us out in anyway more than Soriano does?

Drew way to injury prone....I don't care if Soriano gets hurt, but Drew really hasn't been healthy his entire career. As for Lugo I think Cedeno/Theriot> way over him, please lets just trade for another starter or bullpen we don't need another hitter right now unless its Brian Roberts!

I'd love Penny, Lowe, Cain, or Linnecum or however you spell it, but Burnett is way to injury risky for me. I think we'd need to give up alot for any of them though espically the Giant young guys.

Hill looks horrible, Lilly looks bad, I dont think whomever they put in there if they do will do any better than Lilly.

If Lilly is bad we stand no chance in this one. Come on lilly just be at least decent please :thumbsup:

Agreed

why has there been this much messaging about Jason Larue moving to the Royals? Ha am I in the minority with this? :rotfl:

that sounds like there might be something behind that

Hey was Kline a roider? Maybe I just assumed cause he dropped off so drastically?

He's one of the top 2nd baseman in the league besides Utley and Phillips but totally agree with what you are saying. Good maybe even underrated, but definitely nowhere near Utley.

Saw it coming, but yeah I'd prefer him being stretched out unless we're gonna throw him in the rotation

I'd be a little confused...why did Lou put those arrows next to Hamilton and Renteria? Haha :lol:, but I also wouldnt mind it what so ever haha...

My theory is the Cubs will get rid of two of Marquis/Dempster/Lieber by the deadline and put Marshall back in the rotation. Nope, I don't believe it. The reason why Marshall isn't starting is because he's a lefty. And apparently to Lou and Hendry having 3 lefties with similar stuff is a no no. Agreed. I like Marshall, but when you put him right after Hill in the rotation its like watching mirror images of each other. On any other team Marshall wouldnt struggle as much I think. He didn't struggle last year. He didnt struggle, but he would be more effective with not having someone like Hill in front of him

and agreed

I thought Ezequiel Astacio was the ugliest man in baseball? agreed

all because this guy cheated and juiced...thats the bad thing about the PEDs, the teams get cheated when these guys come off them. cheaters, cheaters never prosper.....

My theory is the Cubs will get rid of two of Marquis/Dempster/Lieber by the deadline and put Marshall back in the rotation. Nope, I don't believe it. The reason why Marshall isn't starting is because he's a lefty. And apparently to Lou and Hendry having 3 lefties with similar stuff is a no no. Agreed. I like Marshall, but when you put him right after Hill in the rotation its like watching mirror images of each other. On any other team Marshall wouldnt struggle as much I think.

Why? haha I've just heard so much talk about the grinders from the south side and Reed is grind all the way haha...I was basically kidding :lol:

That's not far-fetched. In fact, I don't know that I would make that trade. hahaha :clapping:

I dont know much about Hill...Is that a good deal? isnt he just like a mediocre second baseman? He put up decent numbers last year, but many think it was a fluke year. He probably is no more than a .750 OPS player. yeah thats what I thought

I just think Pie is overhyped. He probably will become a great fielder dont get me wrong. I just think that he isnt even to the level you guys say he is so far with his reads. The thing is though before he was rated as a 5-tool player. I'm sorry, but I dont think I could ever see him ever getting any pop. He could become a decent slap hitter, like a Luis Castillo type hitter. That would be nice if he tried to do that...Ha I know ill probably get ripped for this, but thats just my take on it! Sorry! I just think you're wrong on many, many accounts. First of all, Pie is only 23 years old. Part of the reason he's been hyped so much is that he's been in the system since he was 17. Pie put 314/375/558 in the low minors at the age most kids are still playing for their high school teams. His minor league numbers indicate that he will be able to hit. I don't know what you are watching, but his defense already makes him one of the top CF in baseball. He has incredible quickness and a good arm. His reads are not always the best, but with his athletic skills, he can make up most of the difference. While he may not develop into a homerun hitter, I think he will demonstrate acceptable power from CF. He already has more power than Kenny Lofton. Pie will take some time to develop. He's going to have to take his lumps at some point this year, but when it's all said and done, Pie will bring more value offensively and defensively than the grizzled Lofton would bring. If we could bring Kenny Lofton circa 1997 here, then I'd buy your point. But, I think Pie is the better player not only for this year, but because of what he'll bring in the future as well. I'm not saying that he wont, but his swing just looks horrible. I think lofton even against lefties would be more reliable if we picked him up. I'm not saying he will stay healthy, but healthy he is a more consistent and better chance for us getting someone on base thats all Lofton is the safer bet with the bat. But his drop in defense is quite significant. If he were playing in 2008, PECOTA projects Lofton to be a WARP 2.5 player. Pie is projected to be a 3.8 WARP. Pie's defense combined with Lofton's age make Pie the better bet. We're not talking Lofton at 31 or even Lofton at 36. Lofton is 41 years old. His arm is Pierre like at this stage. He's lost a step or two which makes him a stretch in CF. He can still handle it, but he's not the defender he once was. Pie's value on defense makes him the better bet, and considering that Pie's ceiling is much higher than you can expect to get from Lofton, it's just not a good move. While some may argue that Lofton's floor may not be as low as Pie, I'd argue that due to Lofton's age, you just can't be certain of that. Lofton has been a solid player his entire career, and if we didn't have a capable CF, he would be worth a look. But considering we have a prospect in Pie who has put up the minor league numbers that he has, it doesn't make sense to even think about Lofton. Furthermore, Pie begins the season at 23. Last season at age 22, Pie posted a pitiful 215/271/333 line in 87 games for a OPS+ of 53. Yes, I know it's bad and it's why many have been harsh on him and his prospects of making it. However at age 24 Lofton broke into the major leagues. He only played in 20 games and posted an even worse 203/253/216 line for an even worse OPS+ of 38. The next season, he rebounded to post a 285/362/365 line. It's very possible that the two players will show similar careers. They're minor league numbers are similar with Lofton showing higher OBP and Pie showing more SLG. Lofton was older at each level, however. What it boils down to is that both are similar players at different ends of the career spectrum. Lofton has proven himself and made a nice career. He is at the end of it or at the very least, the twiglight. Pie is at the dawn of his. Considering what I know about both players, I think the Cubs would be wise to go with Pie. I get your point....I wasn't trying to make an argument. I'm liking Reed out there right now though haha :yahoo:

Blanco is a good backup catcher...who's gonna play like once every three games. Chill out bout the salary

I dont know much about Hill...Is that a good deal? isnt he just like a mediocre second baseman?