rchap24

What about his 2006 can he not repeat? The Cubs 2007 offense is a much stronger offense than the 2006 Nats. The Cubs play in the friendliest hitting division in the NL. In other words, playing more regularly in Wrigley, GAP, Minutemaid, the New Busch, PNC and Miller is a huge difference over playing half your games in Washington and some of the other tough hitter's parks in the NL East. While he did draw more intentional walks last year than all of his previous years combined, what might he have done with those "non at bats" that might have improved his numbers even more? His OPS+ of 132 isn't all that much better than the OPS+ of 131 and 128 he's put up in previous seasons. While I would expect his OBP to drop a little bit, I expect his AVG to go up. A .295/.345 season would be pretty good for a lead off hitter. Especially when you consider the .295 AVG comes with a really good SLG. Of course, it's also possible that he'll continue improving his eye at the plate and provide an even better OBP than he did last year. He scored 119 runs last year compared to Pierre's 87. That's 32 runs difference. Pierre can keep leading the league in hits and outs made. I'll take Soriano's production in the lead off spot all day and try to forget Juan Pierre was ever a Cub. Im not saying he can't I just don't think he will. He is a great player and im rooting for him to get me wrong. I hope he does!

Can you name a better lead off hitter than Soriano was last year? I don't think I can. While the lead off hitter definitely doesn't get any RBI chances outside of hitting a home run in his very first at bat, the same can't be said of all the rest of his at bats, unless he's leading off an inning. I would probably argue that Jacque Jones is probably a better CFer than Lofton at this point. Lofton is one of my all time favorite players in this league, but he's not even close to being an everyday player anymore. He has Juan Pierre arm strength. Jones has a decent arm, he just has to work on his release point. Soriano has the capability of starting a game off 1-0 with 1 swing of the bat. His line drive power can also put him on 2nd or 3rd base with one swing of the bat. His speed allows him to steal a base. I have some reservations about his OBP in general, but if it's anywhere close to what he did last year, the production guys in the middle of the order are going to be very happy with Mr. Soriano hitting in the lead off spot. If DeRosa puts up an OBP and SLG like he did last year, the Cubs are going to score a lot of runs this year. Oh def no one was! I just don't think he'll repeat last year. If he does he's by far the best in the leauge.

I'd give him mediocre status with his .330 OBP if he had something of value to offer other than speed. He doesn't, therefore he's horrible. Poor routes to fly balls, weenie arm, no power and gets caught stealing way too much for my liking. All told, horrible is a pretty good definition. He wasn't always horrible. He was serviceable in 2003 and 2004. Mediocre would be another good terminology. LA can have him and he won't be missed. If he wore #43, it would be a thing of beauty. I also don't mind not having him, but in an ideal situation I would want a better leadoff hitter than Soriano thats all im saying. I would be willing to drop Jones if we could get a guy like lofton even though hes old to play center be good defensively and could make room for Soriano back later in the order for some more pop. if soriano has a year like last, i wouldn't mind sending him up to the plate most often. you like to maximize the PA of your better hitters. you'd also like to get them runners on in front of them, but i still like the idea of soriano getting a lot of PA's. Well obviously. I hope He does! Then we can stop agruing about a good leadoff hitter.

I still think there is no way in the world that the twins will ever trade Satana. He is the best pitcher in the majors and he's still decently young. I don't think they would trade for younger talent with a team that is still decently young.

I'd give him mediocre status with his .330 OBP if he had something of value to offer other than speed. He doesn't, therefore he's horrible. Poor routes to fly balls, weenie arm, no power and gets caught stealing way too much for my liking. All told, horrible is a pretty good definition. He wasn't always horrible. He was serviceable in 2003 and 2004. Mediocre would be another good terminology. LA can have him and he won't be missed. If he wore #43, it would be a thing of beauty. I also don't mind not having him, but in an ideal situation I would want a better leadoff hitter than Soriano thats all im saying. I would be willing to drop Jones if we could get a guy like lofton even though hes old to play center be good defensively and could make room for Soriano back later in the order for some more pop.

Well guys all of your points are noted. I just don't competely agree that he is horrible he was good before 2004, since then he has been mediocre. Thats my personal opinion. sorry I havent gotten back to the board the last day or two, but were having a snow day at school today its pretty sweet.

He is overrated I dont think he sucks. I know he isnt ideal, but I mean honestly Pierre and Soriano would be spectacular. Thats why I wanted Lofton in the offseason. Nobody and Pierre could add up to spectacular. Not even ARod and Pierre, or Pujols and Pierre. He's really not that bad, seriously! I know he doesnt put up like spectacular numbers, but hes a pretty decent leadoff hitter how can you make a statement like that. Those are the two best players in baseball. The thing is, he hasn't been a pretty decent leadoff hitter since 2004. Besides, as someone else mentioned, leadoff isn't a position. Your best bet is to try to maximize production out of each position on the field without handicapping yourself too much defensively and build the lineup from there. The one issue with that method is that you have players like Soriano who request to bat leadoff and not giving them that spot might cause them to sign elsewhere. But I'd rather have that then try to sign someone just for the sake of batting leadoff. Yes, it would be great if the Cubs had a leadoff hitter that could get on base 40% of the time and steal 50+ bases without getting caught often, but those players are rare. On top of that, you have to hope he plays a position where you have a need. Ok I agree with what you said. I understand he has been bad, but he doesn't suck even with the last two bad years. Does Pierre actively hurt you compared to using a classic quadruple A CF? Probably not. However, the cost of acquiring Pierre was certainly far too high. He was worth Mitre alone, but the second we threw in Nolasco and Pinto, it was a doomed transaction, even without taking into account his monetary cost. Then we batted him at the top of the order, where his inability to get on base or hit for any power at all was amplified... especially on a team where we couldn't afford to hide his meager bat. To think, we could have had Beltran after 2004... We would have had a legitimate superstar player and Nolasco and Pinto to boot. That's a big part of the disdain for Pierre. His actual contribution to the team was mediocre at best... and we payed too much for it after missing out on a prize free agent. Pierre is symptom of the problem that is Jim Hendry. Understood and I agree. as I stated though he as a player is not horrible he just didnt contribute greatly to our team last night.

He is overrated I dont think he sucks. I know he isnt ideal, but I mean honestly Pierre and Soriano would be spectacular. Thats why I wanted Lofton in the offseason. Nobody and Pierre could add up to spectacular. Not even ARod and Pierre, or Pujols and Pierre. He's really not that bad, seriously! I know he doesnt put up like spectacular numbers, but hes a pretty decent leadoff hitter how can you make a statement like that. Those are the two best players in baseball. The thing is, he hasn't been a pretty decent leadoff hitter since 2004. Besides, as someone else mentioned, leadoff isn't a position. Your best bet is to try to maximize production out of each position on the field without handicapping yourself too much defensively and build the lineup from there. The one issue with that method is that you have players like Soriano who request to bat leadoff and not giving them that spot might cause them to sign elsewhere. But I'd rather have that then try to sign someone just for the sake of batting leadoff. Yes, it would be great if the Cubs had a leadoff hitter that could get on base 40% of the time and steal 50+ bases without getting caught often, but those players are rare. On top of that, you have to hope he plays a position where you have a need. Ok I agree with what you said. I understand he has been bad, but he doesn't suck even with the last two bad years.

Wow, not sure what happened there. I fixed it, though. Weird. ha sorry my bad! :lol:

What's an ideal 5th hitter? Why is Ramirez not a good 3rd hitter? Why isn't Ramirez a good cleanup hitter? I always thought the "ideal" 5th hitter was a dangerous hitter, but not as good as the 3rd hitter and the cleanup guy. That's Jacque Jones to a tee. yeah, but if you got Rameriez, Lee, and Soriano you can afford to push Jacque to a number 6th spot.

There are typically 3 results to a Juan Pierre at bat. Ground out to the 2b, ground out to the SS. Ball gets past one of the SS or the 2b. Ok I understand your logic now, but thats your opinion and not statistical evidence. also with your logic the 7 times out of 10 part, umm.... he would be batting .300 hundred which last time I checked was a decent avg.

He is overrated I dont think he sucks. I know he isnt ideal, but I mean honestly Pierre and Soriano would be spectacular. Thats why I wanted Lofton in the offseason. Nobody and Pierre could add up to spectacular. Not even ARod and Pierre, or Pujols and Pierre. He's really not that bad, seriously! I know he doesnt put up like spectacular numbers, but hes a pretty decent leadoff hitter how can you make a statement like that. Those are the two best players in baseball.

First thing, Juan Pierre didn't lead the NL in stolen bases, Jose Reyes did. (And Jose Reyes got caught less too!) And another thing, there shouldn't be such a thing as "leadoff" hitter. It's not a position. And even if it was, Juan Pierre is not a good one. He does not get on base at a good enough rate. Neither does Soriano (last year notwithstanding), but compensates for a lot of it by hitting for power. I'd take Soriano/Derosa/Lee/Ramirez/Jones over Pierre/Derosa/Lee/Ramirez/Soriano any day of the week. Why? you have everyone at the true spots in a perfect line-up Jaque Jones is not a great 5th hitter. Don't get me wrong he played great last year, but Rameriez is an ideal 5th hitter.

His .330 OBP in 2006 and .326 OBP in 2005 are terrible for hitter that is expected to set the table for the middle of the order. Also, considering his speed, he gets caught stealing quite a bit. He has no power to speak of, which wouldn't be a problem if he was getting on base at a higher rate and not running himself into so many outs. Ok I didnt deny that his last two years were his best first off! Secondly not every person in baseball needs to have power to succeed in the Major Leagues Pierre has gotten by for like the last 8 years. If you'd read my post, I never said he needed power to succeed. However, his lack of power gets magnified when he's not doing what he's paid to do: get on base and use his speed. He has nothing else to fall back on. His speed is worthless if he's not on base often enough to use it. And I wouldn't exactly say he's gotten by for eight seasons. He's had three pretty lousy seasons in his career, including the last two. I'm not going to argue your point about Soriano, because in a perfect world, he would be batting somewhere around fifth in the order instead of first. As for defense, we have no way of knowing how he'll adjust to playing center until he actually plays it. With his speed and athleticism, he could end up being decent out there. Despite your claims, Pierre is not one of the best leadoff hitters out there. Since he's proven to be allergic to the base on balls, he pretty much needs to hit around .310 to get his OBP to a respectable level for a leadoff guy. And the fact that he's getting thrown out on over 25% of his stolen base attempts doesn't help. Unless Pierre can revert back to his 2003 or 2004 form, the Cubs are better off without him and his bloated contract. The one thing I agree with you is I don't want his contract either its way to much for him. However unless I'm wrong Figgins and Lofton are making significantly lower which I would be willing to pay for. I wish we would have signed lofton!!!!!!!

When you can predict the outcome of an at bat 7 times out of 10, the player you are referring to is pretty bad. And I wasn't referring to just predicting whether he makes an out or not, but rather where he makes his out. For what Pierre offered at 6m, I'd rather have Alex Sanchez for less than a million. .280 for a lead off hitter would be good if they had an OBP of .350+ to go with it. Pierre's .330 is not good enough, and tack on the 20 times he got himself out attempting to steal, and it's even worse. Pierre really only has 1 skill. Speed. After his speed, there is very little to get excited about. No offense, but what do you mean about the 7 times out of 10 part?

Oh I also forgot to mention led the NL with hits last year so he got on base. He wasn't great dont get me wrong, but him leadoff in the line-up I just mentioned would be pretty good.

His .330 OBP in 2006 and .326 OBP in 2005 are terrible for hitter that is expected to set the table for the middle of the order. Also, considering his speed, he gets caught stealing quite a bit. He has no power to speak of, which wouldn't be a problem if he was getting on base at a higher rate and not running himself into so many outs. Ok I didnt deny that his last two years were his best first off! Secondly not every person in baseball needs to have power to succeed in the Major Leagues Pierre has gotten by for like the last 8 years. Lastly he might get caught stealing a bit but he also led the national leagues in stolen bases so he was safe a few times I would think. I know hes not the ideal leadoff hitter, but neither is Soriano! I know Soriano had 40/40 last year, but he should be a 4 or 5 hitter and not a leadoff hitter because besides last year his OBP was to high. He also is a decent corner outfeilder I think he would be terrible in center. Im not praising Pierre, but hes one of the better leadoff hitters out there and put him on a team with Derosa 2nd, Lee 3rd, Soriano 4th, and Rameriez 5th, thats a pretty damn good lineup.

what numbers did he have that sucked. I really don't understand your reasoning for saying that. When I think of someone who sucks it's a player that is terrible and doesn't play that much and is just sucks. Pierre however had an offseason and still batted around .280 I know he is spectacular, but he is good espically in a strong line-up.

Why? Pierre played well for us and if he had a lineup last year he is numbers probably would have been much better.

Great move by the Twins, but I wish Lirano and Santana were healthy so they could compete against the Sox! santana is healthy For some reason I was thinkin of Santana, I know hes not injured. I have no idea why I confused these two, but I was thinkin Liriano and Radke cause hes retiring. Sorry

Great move by the Twins, but I wish Lirano and Santana were healthy so they could compete against the Sox!

He is overrated I dont think he sucks. I know he isnt ideal, but I mean honestly Pierre and Soriano would be spectacular. Thats why I wanted Lofton in the offseason.

I wouldnt mind Figgins! I know he is overrated, but he would give us a actual leadoff hitter. We could make Soriano our 5th hitter where I think he actually should be and Figgins also would be ten times better than Soriano or Pie in center.

If I had full faith the Cubs would do something smart with the other 20 mil, yeah, I would too. However, I'm fairly confident that Marquis will be better this year than Park, and I'm not convinced that extra money would have been better spent, so I'm not sure... agreed, Park is pretty bad, though I also think we shouldnt have dropped that much coin on Marquis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha that would be fun to see. I got a ? how many lefty catchers have played in the majors. I feel like Ive never see any. If I have they didnt stick in my mind. anybody know?