Andy

Spiller should have gone over Tebow.

Well yes, with the favorable standards and consistent overranking they could be in the mix for non-championship BCS bowls relatively frequently. favorable standards? overranking? yeah, the coaches and media just LOVE the Irish. Who was it that said it's not the 80s anymore? Notre Dame hasn't been overranked in a poll past September in a long time. I guess one could argue the whole 'not dropping after losing to USC' was a case of it, but then again, LSU moved up a spot after Bama beat them this year, so... My question to those people has always been, what incentive do conference brethren (coaches) or conference-based sportswriters (AP) have to rank Notre Dame high with BCS dollars on the line? And of course, there is no answer.

don't believe everything that you read. I know. Just passing on the message.

Kelly just Tweeted that he will listen to what ND has to say. Pete Thamel of the NY Times says Harbaugh will also meet with ND in NYC, for what that's worth.

Parity is a big deal, and encompasses many things. ND's television contract with the worst network sports department is antiquated. Every kid can be promised loads of exposure going to all kinds of schools. Back then ND was a legitimate power, but nearly two decades of mediocrity has left them an afterthought to many. They still get exposure for the same reason people still talk about Mickey Mantle, because it's what the baby boomers grew up on and know and the baby boomers still make decisions. But ND just doesn't resonate to the young football playing public like it did back then. No arguments on the NBC deal. It's amazing that CBS slurps the crap out of Tebow all year long and yet NBC didn't hardly seem to notice, even when he was a candidate for the Heisman, that Clausen was good. The broadcasters are the worst there are on network TV. Things are obviously different with tighter scholarship limits, different styles of offense that can elevate a team beyond its talent level, and more media exposure for college football as a whole, which is why a run of excellence like ND had in the 60s and 70s, or even their mini-run from 88-93 with Holtz, are probably no longer possible. But like I said, ND can still be an Oklahoma or Florida type with consistent BCS appearances and the occasional title run. It just takes a coach willing to go for it. Charlie worked hard enough, but he wasn't cut out for the job, so now ND has to try again.

And Oklahoma was garbage for a while before Stoops got there. Miami and Florida were both pretty nondescript for a while there - hell, Miami still kind of is, though they appear on the way back up. It's not hard to figure out the common denominator. The ability to get any athlete they want. Are you privy to some sort of information that suggests these teams couldn't get any athlete they wanted during the Blake era at OU, the Stallings era at Bama, the Coker era at Miami or the Zooker era at Florida? Bama was successful during the Stallings era, but not so much in between him and Saban. That was Dubose, Franchione and Shula. Right. My mistake, that's the era I meant.

Technically they don't, but players can apply for fifth years if they fill redshirt criteria, and they pretty much always get them.

And Oklahoma was garbage for a while before Stoops got there. Miami and Florida were both pretty nondescript for a while there - hell, Miami still kind of is, though they appear on the way back up. It's not hard to figure out the common denominator. The ability to get any athlete they want. Are you privy to some sort of information that suggests these teams couldn't get any athlete they wanted during the Blake era at OU, the Stallings era at Bama, the Coker era at Miami or the Zooker era at Florida?

Apart from more parity, I fail to see what makes the "college football landscape" (my favorite vague phrase people throw out when they have no concrete evidence of anything) any different than it was when PSU and FSU joined a conference, which, BTW, was in the early to mid 90s, not the 80s.

And Oklahoma was garbage for a while before Stoops got there. Miami and Florida were both pretty nondescript for a while there - hell, Miami still kind of is, though they appear on the way back up. It's not hard to figure out the common denominator.

ND fans are quite delusional if you and GR are representative samples, and I think you are. However, if they get Kelly they will be getting a very good coach. He's a pretty good defensive guy, the trick is getting the kids. I think you and the rest of the ND fans will be happy with him. I don't think ND will every be considered a top program on a consistent basis ever again unless they join a conference. We all know how the Domers feel about that. Pride. WE ARE ND! Miami won like 100 titles in the 1980s immediately before joining a conference. Florida State was consistently top 5 before joining a conference. Penn State won for a billion years before joining a conference. Pretending conference membership cures an ill is a ridiculous opinion.

For God's sake, quit trolling. you're the one that made the comparison, andrew, not me. I also put Bama in there, who is considered a huge brand in college football, but you ignored that and went for the one that would rile people up. Like I should've been surprised.

For God's sake, quit trolling.

In the midst of this, I don't think it was mentioned that Kelly is interviewing tomorrow in NYC, where he is for some sort of function.

Meh. Other people got involved. It's just so easy to refute the point.

And Willingham 'did it' with Davie's kids (I say that in quotes because that 2002 team was smoke and mirrors defined). People think ND's expectations are higher than they are. Our own athletic director said the goal is "to be in the BCS conversation" on a consistent basis. There are a slew of programs with those goals, yet ND is the one cited as having unattainable expectations. It makes no sense.

Notre Dame is 221-124 in that span. It would take a while to get the others on that list, but I'd bet you anything that at least a couple of them have been worse. What kills me is that people think ND can't win anymore, but everyone agrees that Faust, Davie, Willingham and Weis (who have coached 18 of the last 29 seasons of ND football) were [expletive] football coaches. So which is it?

5 Ws in Michigan. 7 Ws in Oklahoma. Guess they can't win anymore either, if we're going to play this game with just this year's performances.

National championships since 1980. Notre Dame: 1 Georgia: 1 Penn State: 1 Alabama: 1 Michigan: 1 Tennessee: 1 Texas: 1 Teams that haven't been to a BCS game since at least 2006 (last time ND went): Florida State Michigan Tennessee Georgia Miami Pittsburgh Guess those teams can't win anymore either. You want to break the news to them or should I?

There's one 's' in Weis. And there's one 's' in Clausen. And there's one 'e' in Kelly. And you're wrong.

You're wrong. I'm not debating it. they can't get get a good coach, and they either waste good recruits' development on bad coaches or just flat out can't recruit anyway. They haven't been good in any current teenager's lifetime and won't for the foreseeable future. The girls on campus are all ugly, the fans are terrible and the academics are harder 99% of the competition. There's literally no reason for anyone to go to notre dame. you'll probably end up with some third-tier coach, anyway. Just get used to a life of arguing over whether or not you deserved the Insight Bowl or the Humanitarian.com bowl (see: missouri). Four years ago they were an illegal push from the national title game, with a team that really shouldn't have even been that good. Again, you're wrong. I'm simply not going to debate it. ETA: Look, I'm not saying that ND's ever going to be a consistent title contender again. Hardly any team can be or has been a title contender for more than two straight years these days, so that's probably out of the question. But there's little reason that Notre Dame can't be at least like an Oklahoma or a Florida, consistently in the BCS conversation with occasional runs to the title. Charlie Weis proved you can get very talented kids to play for Notre Dame, so it comes down to the next coach to keep that up.

You're wrong. I'm not debating it.

Harbough or Pat Fitzgerald if Kelly is out of the running. Harbaugh is never going to be the HC at ND. It's ridiculous. Fitzgerald won't either, he's already denied interest.

My favorite two tidbits from the poll: Cincy got one first-place vote. Brian Kelly gave it to them. Bo Pelini voted Texas #1.

My team knocked the crap out of dew's and I'm going to end up far and away the points leader for the season in the league. I'll be the 3 seed and who I play is still up in the air.