MPrior

You're making me sick. Stop it.

What's being missed is that no one (except maybe CubbieRich) suggested that these pitchers were great, or that that was even the issue at hand. What was being suggested was that the pitching talent that the Cubs farm system has produced is well above average - sometimes even exceptional - major league pitching. No one is saying that, in the past 5 years, the Cubs farm system has produced a bunch of sure-fire hall of famers. That would be STUPID. That's why no one said it.

Are you kidding? This is baseball! Since when has a point being completely and irrefutably logical been grounds not to argue against it? Just ask Joe Morgan, he'll set you straight.

of course they would. and the cubs are also going to have a hard time contending w/o lee. but they're also going to have a hard time contending with a black hole in rf, rusch in the rotation, wood on the shelf, and having a complete lack of plate discipline. but the focus will be on lee's injury. just like st. louis would put the focus on pujols being hurt. so you don't like the way they're addressing the starting pitching? if not, what do you prefer? I don't totally buy that they would put the focus on Pujols being out. Last year the were without Rolen, and Larry Walker wasn't 100% either but you didn't see the Cards start making excuses, they just plugged someone in and kept on going. I know that Pujols is much better than Rolen and that they didn't have to make excuses because they won. But that is the whole thing, they have good management who seems to find the right pieces to plug into their lineup and get the job done. We have Dusty "Dude" Baker, and a GM who constructed a roster that had no contigency plan in place should someone go down. pujols >>> rolen. also, take away carpenter and whoever their #3 pitcher is. suppan?? marquis?? i guess the cubs could have built up the rotation by signing millwood, byrd or weaver, but then the complaints would be about wasting money. the rotation is the least of my concerns right now (especially if rusch gets the boot). the bench, rf, cf, and a general lack of concern for plate discipline are problems that will be ignored b/c any lack of success this season will be attributed to lee's injury. yes, pierre & jones lack plate discipline and pierre's been a disappointment so far, but the six other starters have plate discipline. Cedeno doesn't. Neifi (who is getting most of the starts at 2B) certainly doesn't. Aramis isn't great at it, although he's certainly better than some of our schlubs. Mostly he gets pitched around, though. Even Walker, who we laud as having great plate discipline, is really only exceptional when you compare him to the rest of the Cubs (he's definitely much more than adequate at it, though. It's just that, in comparison with the rest of the league, he's "above average" rather than "vastly beyond basically everybody else"). Barret and Hairston also do a decent job at it, and Murton's pretty durn good. We are, currently, as UMFan83 pointed out, last in all of MLB in walks. I think that's pretty telling. Our organizational approach to plate discipline certainly seems to be one of negligence.

This implies that he's played poor D. Has he so far this year? I think one of the points of the first post was that he's playing first base very well, and it seems that way to me (although I haven't actually looked at it myself). I'm basically with everyone on this one, though - he's great. And I like that he's outspoken. I mean, it's not like he's outspoken AND a jerk. He's outspoken and he usually has something pretty nice to say. He's occasionally had to put his foot in his mouth, but considering what he's been put through, you'd expect a little bit of that.

it has to be the hitting philosophy. i just don't think they realize the reason pitchers fail is the same reason hitters succeed(ie; taking pitches, working counts, getting pitchers out of the game early). same reason why murton has been so successful. he didn't come up in our system, and in the red sox system they first off scouted players who have an ability to wait for their pitch, then nuture them moreso in that manner as they progress. if corey patterson is not a prime example of what is wrong with the cubs farm system as far as hitting goes, i don't know what is. I second this - it's undeniably true. But it's probably equally, if not moreso, due to our drafting philosophy. We take a lot of pitchers in the draft, especially with our top picks. I guess that's just the Cubs sticking to what they know best.

But a better pitcher, through sheer grit, determination, "craftiness," and mystical game-winning power would have found a way to win, don't you see?

Thank you for that. It was completely awesome - four people who were truly great at what they do.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Even including his sub-par 2005, his career ERA is 3.67, and his career ERA+ is 116. He's had ERA+ seasons of 128, 126, 133, and 122, with 166.7, 174.3, 211.0, and 140.3 innings pitched, respectively. He's got a career K/9 of 10.436, which is second all-time, behind only Randy Johnson. When Wood is healthy, he is a sickeningly dominant pitcher.

I have spent most of my life as a pretty huge Beatles and Stones fan - they're both incredible. But the Beatles are, in my extremely biased opinion, the best band to have hit the mainstream ever. The collection of and collaboration between arguably three, definitely two musical geniuses is what makes them so incredible. The Beatles were more than the sum of their parts, and are at least indirectly responsible for many, if not most, advances in music since they hit the scene.

I like winning.

OH....goony, you HAD to go there, didn't you? There's a Jim Edmonds joke in here somewhere... Stupid question... Is Edmunds really gay? There have been rumors and speculation (namely the Edgar Renteria shower incident that earned him the nickname of "Lassie"), but no one publically knows. It's kinda like Derek Jeter and A-Rod. Enlighten me.

I'll take an Aramawalk.

I don't think he'd be a bad option next year, might as well stick with JP for now. Until he starts taking more walks, I don't think he should be a permanent fixture at the top of the order - he's on fire right now, and I love the kid, but he could stand to be a little more selective, as he won't always be on a hot streak.

The article that Perry wrote is all true. But that doesn't mean it's not a pretty stupid article. He makes it seem as if there are lots of people out there who believe that Morgan Ensberg is going to sustain his ridiculous 1.478 OPS all season long (or, for that matter, Maddux's equally ridiculous 0.99 ERA). I'm pretty sure that anyone who knows anything about baseball at all knows that.

I think the positive we can take away from all this is that Houston is really starting out strong. If they start out real well, there's no way they can fall to 15 games under .500, only to storm their way to the playoffs. In fact, I think they'll storm their way to 15 games over .500, only to collapse all the way down to last place (well, except the Pirates, cause seriously. They're the Pirates).

Frankly, I don't really see Hendry making a trade at all. And I think that's a good thing. At this juncture, there's no impactful trade he could make without gutting the system, and so it's probably better not to do that. I think the team just has to play through this, hope for some guys to step up at least long enough so we're not in an obviously desperate trading position.

What gets me is that it's not just about walks - walks are great, and I'm in total agreement with Goony that our organization needs to emphasize their importance rather than totally ignore them. But I wonder if it wouldn't be better to emphasize patience rather than walks - for two reasons: one, antiquarian baseball know-it-alls might not object to it as much; and two, because being patient at the plate leads to a lot more good things than just walks. Getting good pitches to hit, for example, which should not only lead to more hits for some, but perhaps also better hits (i.e., extra bases). Or making the pitcher work harder. Exposing the bullpen. Obviously, walks are the biggie, because, as Sulley keeps saying, it's not making an out, but all that other stuff is important too. It's so frustrating when players continually ground out or pop up on first pitches - pitches that aren't even good to hit.

First off, I really don't like Edmonds - he's one of my least favorite baseball players out there. I think he's unnecessarily arrogant and an enormous jerk. But none of that, nor his strikeout numbers since 2000, change the fact that he's been extremely productive over that time. He's still a tool, though. And accusing Maddux of cheating was totally classless.

If the irony was intentional, I applaud you for your subtlety. And even if it wasn't, well, it's still funny.

Well, up until the eighth inning, they were pretty terrible in this regard - it was almost like they were trying NOT to take walks. Except Murton, who, despite his slump, is awesome.

Neifi's is bad but, the Sox's Juan Uribe has to have the worst swing in baseball. He said "one of." He and Uribe can both have among the worst swings in baseball if they want to. And it really does look like Neifi is trying to pound the ball into the ground when he swings. Some people complain about uppercut swings - that's nothing on Neifi's fourty-five-degrees-downwards swing. Oh, and I'm with the expectations crowd. I think people are less POd at Neifi primarily because he's not meant to be a regular in the lineup, he's not batting in the middle of our order, and he's not a corner outfielder. I'm sure the strikeouts have something to do with it, plus the fact that he usually hits for about a .275 average, which doesn't look as bad as he truly is.

Okay, I get it...so the problem with Cubs fans is that they attend the games? You've opened my eyes, True Cubs Fan.

I'm glad you do, because it's about time a real cub fan spoke up and opened some eyes..... I would like further information from a real Cubs fan, do you have a newsletter? So when I peruse this message board, I occasionally happen across a post that causes me to let out a polite chuckle, which I enjoy greatly. I don't generally actually laugh out loud. This time I did.

In no way does Pujols deserve any more respect on that level because of his capability with the bat. You could make an argument based on his strength of character, but basically, it's inappropriate to do that to any hitter, no matter how good a hitter they are. Um, I haven't really seen anyone saying they hate Pujols, or saying that they hate him for this reason - they're merely pointing out that the action, no matter what Pujols says afterwards, is pretty indefensible. I don't hate Pujols. And there are plenty of players who I do have much, much better reasons not to like (Jim Edmonds, yet again). That doesn't change the fact that the bat flip was completely ridiculous.