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Murton was sort of collateral damage from the Soriano signing. The Cubs wanted/needed to make a big splash after the disaster of 2006, and it just so happened that the best available FA that year (Soriano) plays the only position Murton's shown himself to be competent at. Under ideal circumstances, the best available FA that year would've been a SS or a 2B or even a RF, and Murton would've been able to remain the everyday LF -- and I bet the Cubs would agree with that. (Next best outcome would be for Murton to display an ability to play a passable RF... he hasn't, at least not in Lou's eyes.) Unfortunately those weren't the circumstances, and so here we are... not by design so much as by coincidence. Coincidence? No, we're here b/c our GM is terrible at building a baseball team.

"uncreative use of resources" is a terribly tame way of putting it.

I'm not sure who this is aimed at, but that's my policy as well. If someone tells me something is "take it or leave it" or a deal-breaker and I find out later it's not, their credibility is gone. I don't know if anyone has suggested Jim should have used a "take it or leave it" strategy. But someone suggested that the offer was made 3 months ago and has been sitting out there open this whole time and others (including me) think Jim's insane if that's what he did.

In what business school would such a useless strategy be taught? Only someone trying to sell something that is hot or who is desperate does such a thing. Useless strategy? Are you suggesting that giving someone an offer and, in the face of a rejection, walking away (usually with a "if you change your mind" or "if you figure out what you're after" or something similar) is useless? Works surprisingly well for a useless strategy.

So you make an offer. If it isn't accepted, you say "I still have interest, so if you ever figure out what you're going to do, give me a call." You don't leave the offer on the table. This is pretty much it. You don't leave the offer out there for months. You don't slam the door or play games (if they call back a week later ready to accept, you don't change the offer just to be a jerk). But you don't just say, here's our open-ended offer. If you do that, what motivation do the Os have for accepting it? They can look around and talk to other teams. See if someone's 2B gets hurt in ST and suddenly there's a bigger market, etc. As jersey said all along - that's essentially negotiating 101.

Yeah, ok. I'm glad I didn't read that whole thing. Wow.

Yeah. Nothing says "great preview" like one that comes out after the rotation has been named and includes the wrong 5 guys.

I don't see how that is possible. The only way that happens is if they go with 1 backup middle infielder, and I don't see anyway they pull that off. .... With the normal 5-man bench, if one is a catcher and you burn one on a 1B-man (Ward), that leaves you 3 guys to cover infield and outfield. Either it's one outfielder (Johnson covering all three spots, supplemented by Ward or Cedeno), and two infielders (Cedeno and Cintron). Or it's one infielder (Cedeno) and two outfielders (Murton and Johnson). Personally I don't see why going with Cedeno only wouldn't be just fine. When's the last time a team went into a season with 1 backup infielder? When's the last time the Cubs even considered it? It's not going to happen. Cedeno only is impossible because of the "what happens if 2 go down in the same game" question. You can always throw Ward into the OF if need be, or DeRosa, but there's nobody on that roster that can step in at 3rd, SS or 2B if needed. The smart thing to do is not waste a roster spot on a 7th reliever. Exactly. As strong as our bullpen should be and with Lieber back there able to pitch several innings if necessary, there's no reason for 12 pitchers.

Fixed That's hilarious. Oh, and this is sarcasm.

Everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL. Big deal. Look at PCL stats from 2007, sort by OPS, and count the number of Shortstops ranked above Cedeno. Link No offense, but so what? Did you some of the other names on that list? Joey Gathright kicked butt in the PCL last season. AAA is not a prospect league anymore. Its a dumping ground for AAAA players. Again, the response was not to an argument that PCL is a dumping ground, the response was to a claim that "everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL." I merely wanted to put in perspective that Cedeno's numbers were huger than any other shortstop in the PCL. Exactly - if he put up an .800-.850 OPS in the PCL, those would be big numbers but easier to explain away b/c of the inflation of the league. But a .959 OPS as a SS?

Agreed. He probably has 7 better keepers for the next few years anyway.

then shouldn't Dusty get your vote?

Everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL. Big deal. Interesting Theriot sucks in any league. Ronny Cedeno sucks in the Majors. Neither help the Cubs. That's great. Theriot sucks at every level, including the majors. So the fact that he didn't hit better at Iowa than elsewhere is irrelevant. Cedeno hit well in rookie ball, very bad in A ball, below average at AA and outstanding at AAA and bad in the majors at age 23. So his stats at Iowa should be disregarded because "everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL" - except people that suck, then they suck in the PCL too - except people who suck at some levels and are great at others, then they suck and their numbers are inflated... I'm lost. How do we know when to consider AAA numbers? When Ronny Cedeno doesn't suck. :roll: That was a fruitful little discussion. Speaking of fruitful... an eyeroll! . I don't know what there is to discuss. I said lots of players' numbers in the PCL are inflated, you showed me that Ryan Theriot's weren't. I don't see what that proved, because I'm still right: Lots of PCL numbers are inflated. Ronny would appear to be a case. I don't care that Cedeno has great minor league numbers, because he's had a lot of major-league at bats to show something. He hasn't shown anything. Major league pitchers keep getting him out with breaking balls and pitches out of the zone. He hasn't adapted. Seeing as how he's one of the dumbest baseball players I've ever seen, I don't see it changing. I know everyone around here loves Ronny, and good for all of you. I'm glad. But I'm not convinced, and I see no reason to argue about it any further. I generally hate the eyeroll, but it was well deserved. You were right? You said everyone's numbers are inflated in the PCL, I showed an example of someone who is relevant to this discussion whose numbers were not inflated in the PCL. There are several others out there. Obviously, you didn't mean literally everyone, but the fact that some guys have inflated numbers in the PCL doesn't automatically negate everyone's production there. It makes no sense whatsoever to ignore all PCL numbers because it's a hitter-friendly league. Yes, you take them with a grain of salt. But 2 seasons of .900+ OPS from a SS at ages 22 and 24 is freaking insane. Certainly warrants a look over the likes of Theriot.

Attack of the renegade commas

Dusty w/o question

My guess is Hendry still prefers Byrd to DaVannon or Johnson. So, he's willing to deal Murton to get him. (Personally, I'd rather have both Murton and Johnson.) Because of this, he probably called Daniels back one more time to see if he were any more reasonable than the last time. It appears that Daniels is overplaying the career year of Byrd. That's my guess too. I don't think JH is worried about a platoon as much as he's worried about Pie sucking. He wants someone who can platoon, but also step in full-time if Lou & Hendry deem Pie too sucky to play every day. Jim probably sees Byrd as that kind of player, but not Davanon or Johnson.

I totally agree. The one thing that Hendry and Lou share is that they have a habit of totally ignoring certain players (Murton, Cedeno, Marshall) and obsessing over others (Theriot, Roberts) usually without a good reason. As you posted, sliding Fukudome over to CF and using Murton in RF is 1000 times better than signing Johnson or trading for the likes of Payton, Byrd, Willits, etc. It's not complicated, really. Murton can't play CF. End of analysis. seems like pretty faulty analysis to me. I agree. Keener was not advocating that Murton play CF - just that simple changes could be made, if needed, with the players we have already to cover all 3 OF spots. Yes, the obvious choice seems to be having Murton in RF and Fukudome in CF on the days Pie is sitting. If Pie sucks for months and Hendry wants to replace him, it's not going to be with Reed Johnson, so not having him isn't going to hurt us.

Everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL. Big deal. Interesting Theriot sucks in any league. Ronny Cedeno sucks in the Majors. Neither help the Cubs. That's great. Theriot sucks at every level, including the majors. So the fact that he didn't hit better at Iowa than elsewhere is irrelevant. Cedeno hit well in rookie ball, very bad in A ball, below average at AA and outstanding at AAA and bad in the majors at age 23. So his stats at Iowa should be disregarded because "everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL" - except people that suck, then they suck in the PCL too - except people who suck at some levels and are great at others, then they suck and their numbers are inflated... I'm lost. How do we know when to consider AAA numbers? When Ronny Cedeno doesn't suck. :roll: That was a fruitful little discussion.

"And I don't want any "Well, I'd sit the homerun guy until the bases are loaded, pinch hit and then immediately sub him." Pretend like you have to keep both guys in the whole game." From the first post of the thread. :) My mistake. Guess I missed that part. As one of my law school prof's always said before exam time "don't fight the hypo."

Oh, and I picked the first 3 bands, which seems like the obvious answer to me. But Bob Dylan's greatest work (Blood on the Tracks) should get a mention.

wow, who peed in your cheerios this morning? When you are trying to be a smartass and you make a typo, I think you should expect some cracks about it.

Everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL. Big deal. Interesting Theriot sucks in any league. Ronny Cedeno sucks in the Majors. Neither help the Cubs. That's great. Theriot sucks at every level, including the majors. So the fact that he didn't hit better at Iowa than elsewhere is irrelevant. Cedeno hit well in rookie ball, very bad in A ball, below average at AA and outstanding at AAA and bad in the majors at age 23. So his stats at Iowa should be disregarded because "everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL" - except people that suck, then they suck in the PCL too - except people who suck at some levels and are great at others, then they suck and their numbers are inflated... I'm lost. How do we know when to consider AAA numbers?

I totally agree. The one thing that Hendry and Lou share is that they have a habit of totally ignoring certain players (Murton, Cedeno, Marshall) and obsessing over others (Theriot, Roberts) usually without a good reason. As you posted, sliding Fukudome over to CF and using Murton in RF is 1000 times better than signing Johnson or trading for the likes of Payton, Byrd, Willits, etc. It's not complicated, really. Murton can't play CF. End of analysis. seems like pretty faulty analysis to me.

Everyone puts up huge numbers in the PCL. Big deal. Interesting