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He'd likely be a relatively cheap alternative to fill a position Hendry is hellbent on filling, and allows us to utilize Murton in a trade for something else other than crappy Marlon Byrd. If we sign Reed we can throw Murton in a deal for a better player (if there will be another deal, anyways), since I would assume Murton still has a decent amount of trade value I thought Jim's been open to trading Murton ever since he signed Fukudome. Wasn't there a story around the time he made the "life would be easier if Murton were LH" comment that he was trying to trade Matt to a team where he'd have a chance to play? What valuable piece is Murton going to net us? He's never been untouchable, so if the Orioles wanted him for Roberts, that wouldn't have been the hold up. If we get Reed Johnson, I don't think Jim's going to try to get Byrd or Crisp. So what good is it to trade Murton now? At this point, unless we're trading him for an upgrade somewhere (SS, SP), I'd rather have him as a 4th OF than trade him for nothing. If Soriano misses time with leg issues, I'd rather have Murton out there as a 2-3 week fill-in than Reed Johnson.

If I'm reading that correctly, LCF at Petco isn't really 357, it's more like 402. That's about 35 feet of extra space beyond where Wrigley's wall is. Plays pretty close to 40' difference with the basket. If he's pulling them down the line, Wrigley will hurt him. But in the alleys, Wrigely is much smaller.

I definitely think that was worth being called "a shot". The problem is if you let that be his only shot. I was going to add a qualifier like "fair shot" or something, but whatever. I don't think you judge a guy by how he hit ML pitching at age 23. If you call it a "shot" or not is semantics. I think you and I agree that he deserves a chance to show what he can do at the ML level again. Certainly over Theriot.

This is all true. But also, it'd be nice if the hypothetical 23-year-old showed some promise when they got their "shot." Cedeno didn't show anything like this -- he was abysmal in 2005. He looked clueless at the plate. I'm not terribly excited about a shortstop with no strike zone judgment, an erratic arm and a total lack of baseball instincts. who, at ages 22 and 24, put up OPS of .921 and .959 in AAA? Yeah, Cedeno might suck in the majors, but man I'd like to find out rather than put Theriot out there again.

To be fair, kid was 23 in '06. Not a long list of ballplayers that play well in the majors at 23. Longer list of players that don't play well in the majors at 23 but turn out to be average or better players. Hey, I'm all for starting Cedeno over Theriot. I wasn't saying Cedeno isn't going to be any good, just that he did in fact get a shot, albeit at a young age. I'm not confident Ronny will be that good, but I am confident he would be better than Theriot given the chance. I think you and I just disagree on whether a year's worth of ABs at 23 is really a "shot." If you made every ballplayer face ML pitching at age 23 and determined whether to play them 2 years later based on that year alone, you'd make a lot of bad decisions.

No kidding. In '03, who would have thought that going from Florida to Detroit would be a positive change of scenery.

While Felix Pie has really crushed the ball in the major leagues, right? So I guess it's safe to assume he'll be horrible, too? As I said in another post, when the Chicago Cubs start playing the Omaha Royals - let me know. Cedeno raked in the minor leagues - why isn't he starting in front of Theriot? His minor league stats suggest he should... your post makes my brain hurt The arrogance by many on this board makes mine hurt. Pie and Cedeno have better minor league numbers - therefore it will just automatically translate to success at the major league despite what their past performances have shown us. I know so because numbers support my claim - despite what the actual play on the field suggests. Pay no attention to that.... Arrogance? There was nothing about your post that made sense. Pie and Cedeno have put up really, really good numbers in the minor leagues, and Pie was usually very young for his level. Ryan Theriot never put up really, really good numbers and was often very old for his level. Ryan Theriot has done nothing in the major leagues to have an everyday job handed to him, while guys like Pie and Cedeno have proven, based on their minor league numbers, that they deserve a shot. To be fair, Cedeno had a pretty good shot in 2006. But unless he gets shipped of to Baltimore, I think you'll see him again when Theriot continues to play the way he did for most of last season - badly. Ryan just isn't that talented and was exposed. I don't see that changing. Pie is a different story. They just need to give him the job and let him try and hold it for most of the year. To be fair, kid was 23 in '06. Not a long list of ballplayers that play well in the majors at 23. Longer list of players that don't play well in the majors at 23 but turn out to be average or better players.

Looking at the 5 SP spot for my team. Have Maddux, but Kuroda is available. Soto Swisher Utley Braun Tulo CB Young Fukudome Pence Kemp B - Youk, J Upton, Burrell, A Cabrera Hamels Haren Wagner Capps Dice K Harden Broxton B - Maddux Have a pending trade offer of Burrell for Snell, but I'm not sure it'll go through. Should I drop Maddux for Kuroda? Any obvious holes?

Give this man a prize. I used to post stuff about a lineup choices in the old days (circa 04' and 05') and get shouted down about how it does not matter where people bat so long as they get on base. Some of you need to take your own advice. If the fight is whether Lee & ARam should hit 3/4 or vice versa, that's relatively pointless. If the issue is whether Theriot should hit 1st or 8th, it makes a fair amount of difference, I think.

Oh, I'm gonna once the trade for Kinsler is done. I'd start Helton anyway unless and until Butler shows he's the better option. I'd also drop Willits. Does he even have a job anymore? I thought the Angels OF was Vlad, Hunter, and GMJr. Unless that's changed, I don't think Willits has much value. If the league is that shallow, trade your extra SPs for elite players at some positions like C, 2B, or SS. I'd try to add some HR and SB at those positions. I wouldn't drop Guthrie. He should be of some value to some team. With all the SP you have, there has to be a team or 2 that's looking for SP. Use your depth to trade for their best offensive player.

why?

BBB already showed that Theriot is worse, but even if he weren't, Pie's particular weakness in approach has a larger chance of getting exploited by hitting 8th. With his ability/potential, it doesn't make sense to put him there. Pie's weakness will continue to be exploited until he figures out how to adjust. It really doesn't matter if Pie hits 1st, 2nd, 7th or 8th - pitchers are going to throw him sliders in and high fastballs and he'll continue to get himself out until he figures out how to lay off those pitches. The scouting report from the opposing pitcher doesn't change just because he's hitting 7th as compared to 8th. If/when he starts outhitting Theriot and he starts to suck, as many of you consider a foregone conclusion, then slot them accordingly. Until then, hit Pie in the 8 hole. The 8th spot is the one spot in the order where there can be a significant difference in how you're pitched, because there's an automatic out behind him(whereas there's varying degrees of danger in the other spots). I'm not saying Pie is going to OPS 900 in the 7 spot and 600 in the 8 spot, but when you have a chance to shield someone as talented as Pie because there is a hitter as bad as Theriot to hit 8th instead of Pie, it's a relative no brainer to do it. Seems to me that if Theriot is so bad, then having Pie bat 7th and Theriot 8th creates the same problem as having Pie bat 8th. Quite a Catch-22. Theriot is really bad, but he's still not at pitcher-level.

Is there an IP max? If it's the typical 1250 from Y! public leagues, I'd definitely trade some of that SP for closers and I'd replace Greinke and Guthrie in the lineup w/ real RP (even if they're non-closers - the Broxton's and Okajima's of the world) to cut down on your IP. Otherwise, you'll never get all the starts out of your top pitchers. Might consider trading one of your top 5 SPs, esp if someone will overpay for a name (like Halladay). I'd trade one of Gorz and Wainwright too. Punting saves in a roto league can cost you a lot (not nearly as bad in H2H). Go get a couple mid-level closers that will at least put you in the middle of the pack or so. Or wait for ones to struggle and be quick to put up their replacements. I like your offense, though you're banking on a lot of young guys, obviously.

I'm rooting for Theriot to: 1. Pull 160 great games out of his backside and post a .360 OBP for the year, or 2. Suck so horribly in the first 3 weeks that they have to bench him or move him to 8th. My allegiance is to the Cubs, as a team, not any player. I want the team to win and I want the best players on the field. Our chances of winning increase if Theriot gets on base at a good clip or if he has fewer PAs. So yes, in a way, I'm rooting for him to fail. I'd much rather he post that .360 OBP, but I think, of the 2 scenarios, that's much less likely.

I'd say the only way CPatt isn't the starting CF is if Dusty gets fired before opening day. Hopper probably starts against LHP, but I don't see Patterson not starting in CF for Dusty. One of the reports about Bruce being sent down mentioned that Dusty pressured Krivsky to sign CPatt. Once he hit so well in spring, there's no way Dusty isn't going to start him. My point was Dusty's likely 2nd in line is even worse than the 1st. I agree - I was just expounding on my earlier point about CPatt's lock on the CF job (at least to start).

There it is - "be a man." Maybe my favorite cliche of any on this Board. Seems the list of Cubs that aren't manly never stops growing.

I'd say the only way CPatt isn't the starting CF is if Dusty gets fired before opening day. Hopper probably starts against LHP, but I don't see Patterson not starting in CF for Dusty. One of the reports about Bruce being sent down mentioned that Dusty pressured Krivsky to sign CPatt. Once he hit so well in spring, there's no way Dusty isn't going to start him.

What do the Cubs need? Well, the Tigers have two guys that could fill the Cubs most glaring hole. A - Hendry doesn't seem to think it's a glaring hole. B - So do the Yankees, but no one's suggesting that we trade for Cap'n Jetes or ARod. The Tigers went out and got a SS early in the off-season b/c they recognized the need to get Guillen out of there (and simultaneously get rid of Casey) and added Renteria. I don't think they did that b/c they didn't think they'd get Cabrera - I think they went into the off-season with the intention of creating one of the best lineups in baseball. They replaced their holes at 3B and 1B and did just that. I just don't see how anyone can suggest with a straight face that Hendry call up DD and say "you want a RP? Give us Renteria or take a hike." No one is saying Hendry should do that. The Tigers called the Cubs for relief help. If they aren't willing to part with Renteria for bullpen help, farm help and salary relief help, then there's really nothing else to discuss. Really? Sounds like you're suggesting DD is taking 8 seconds to answer a call from JH here. Otherwise, why does it take him 8 seconds to pick up the phone? I have no problem with asking for Renteria (though I think it's a waste of time, even if it's 30 seconds), but I think you need to be prepared for a hearty laugh on the other end. If we had even an average SS to offer in return, it might make sense for DD to listen. But Hendry would only be able to get "Renter" out before Dave bursts into laughter.

I agree on the leadoff thing. But it's pretty clear that CPatt beat Bruce out to start in CF. How is it "pretty clear"? Either way, the thread title is a lie. Are you serious? The Reds have Freel and Bruce. They sign CPatt, a CF, to a minor league deal. CPatt hits 400+ in the spring. Bruce gets sent down and Freel is being rumored to be traded. You don't think it's pretty clear that Patterson won the CF job? That's all speculation and just you guessing. Patterson might start, but that's far from "pretty clear" right now. Actually, it's called logic. But whatever.

Are you joking? It's a running joke, I think started in the thread about Gallagher being sent down.

I agree on the leadoff thing. But it's pretty clear that CPatt beat Bruce out to start in CF. How is it "pretty clear"? Either way, the thread title is a lie. Are you serious? The Reds have Freel and Bruce. They sign CPatt, a CF, to a minor league deal. CPatt hits 400+ in the spring. Bruce gets sent down and Freel is being rumored to be traded. You don't think it's pretty clear that Patterson won the CF job? Also, I know everyone assumes CPatt is going to lead off, and I think that's probably true. But while I can fairly easy understand by the article that CPatt is starting in CF, there isn't even a hint about him leading off in the article. But I hate Dusty to, so go on bashing him, I don't really care.

I don't remember Hawk ever talking about gowns.

What do the Cubs need? Well, the Tigers have two guys that could fill the Cubs most glaring hole. A - Hendry doesn't seem to think it's a glaring hole. B - So do the Yankees, but no one's suggesting that we trade for Cap'n Jetes or ARod. The Tigers went out and got a SS early in the off-season b/c they recognized the need to get Guillen out of there (and simultaneously get rid of Casey) and added Renteria. I don't think they did that b/c they didn't think they'd get Cabrera - I think they went into the off-season with the intention of creating one of the best lineups in baseball. They replaced their holes at 3B and 1B and did just that. I just don't see how anyone can suggest with a straight face that Hendry call up DD and say "you want a RP? Give us Renteria or take a hike."

I agree on the leadoff thing. But it's pretty clear that CPatt beat Bruce out to start in CF.

Hard to be too pissed about the end of the Drake game. WKU ran the play they wanted and got off a great shot. Drake defended it well and had 2/3 guys in the shooters face. Not much more you can do there. Great game, but man I would have liked to have seen a Drake win in the NCAA during my lifetime.