indifferent

Duke left the Cards/Pirates in the 2nd after rolling his ankle on the bases (and there's been no shortage of guys on bases).

any more responses to this? I don't disagree with your thought in theory, but having played the same five starters all year, they all could use an extra day of rest here and there to be sharp for the postseason. Which is why I advocate a 6 man rotation with Reyes. I'd definitely get Carp an extra day or so when possible and pull him earlier than he has been. LaRussa did that with Morris after 70 or so pitches on Sat. so maybe he's on board.

I doubt it, but who knows? We are that shorthanded. I'd think they would play Seabol (meh) and Mabry more at 3rd and Nunez and Luna at 2nd.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/918E708B80F4CF24862570650010BA1D?OpenDocument Sounds serious to me; I'm hoping the Cards don't have to go into the postseason with two of their infielders out.

Very sad game on our behalf. Hennessey of the 5.5 ERA owns us for two starts.

Hawkins got so jobbed on the ball call before that.

Hawkins againt Pujols in the 8th.

No, it means he is efficent with his pitches throwing deep into a ballgame that doesn't equate to him not being abused. The only way you can tell if a pitcher is or isn't being abused is thru sight. I haven't watched all of his starts, so I can't you tell if he's been left put there while fatigued, the low pitch counts decrease the odds but guarantee nothing. You can tell if a manager/PC is being careless by leaving a pitcher in there despite the score. Baker was terrible with this w/Zambrano last year and it appears LaRussa has been with Carpenter at times. Ahh, I knew there was a reason I watched every game this year, save a few! Given that criteria, I can tell you that Marquis has definitely been abused this year, Morris not too far behind him. The last time I saw Carp fatigued, working slowly, or laboring was his blow up against Philly in April. I only trust my eyes in this regard, I put my trust into a PC if I'm unable to watch the game. But, I've seen so many pitchers abused at the HS level in cold weather. Marquis was abused again tonight, eyes witnessed it.

My sentiments exactly.

Please, give it up. Chris Carpenter isn't going to all of a sudden forget how to pitch in the playoffs. Just because Pujols and Edmonds didn't play well in the WS last year doesn't mean history will repeat itself. Remember when everyone said Barry Bonds was a playoff choker? He hit almost .500 in the World Series. There is no "proof" the Cardinals will choke in the playoffs. Will everyone please stop talking about how Pujols didn't show up in the World Series last year? Of our non-existent offense, Pujols hit .333.

Interesting reading on Cards scrubs... http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4341

I think the teams that held onto players they should have been unloading weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. O'Brien and Littlefield come to mind.

Woo hoo! Molina makes his return to the lineup tonight's game (and I will be there to welcome him back!)

No, it means he is efficent with his pitches throwing deep into a ballgame that doesn't equate to him not being abused. The only way you can tell if a pitcher is or isn't being abused is thru sight. I haven't watched all of his starts, so I can't you tell if he's been left put there while fatigued, the low pitch counts decrease the odds but guarantee nothing. You can tell if a manager/PC is being careless by leaving a pitcher in there despite the score. Baker was terrible with this w/Zambrano last year and it appears LaRussa has been with Carpenter at times. Ahh, I knew there was a reason I watched every game this year, save a few! Given that criteria, I can tell you that Marquis has definitely been abused this year, Morris not too far behind him. The last time I saw Carp fatigued, working slowly, or laboring was his blow up against Philly in April.

The Cards are underachieving and the Cards are overachieving. It's a fair statement.

There are Cardinal fans that do not question Tony's every move. I have yet to meet one. Most of Cardinal Nation has a dislike for his management style. I used to hate the way he managed, but it is hard to argue with the results he is getting out of his team. Moreover, the man will be a future HOF manager and is very competitive and prepared. Maybe just maybe, this guy knows what he is doing, and the rest of us are only writing about it on the computer. And maybe to shed some light on the Carp's innings/pitch count discussion, I will quote TLR himself. He stated during the Cubs series that "there is a very fine line between winning and losing." He went on to talk about how his team cannot afford to try to coast the rest of the season. Therefore, it is his philosophy that the team continues to push forward. The best analogy I can think of is a coach that I used to play for. He was known for his deadly full court press and would utilize it when the team is winning by a landslide. He was severly criticized for doing so. Yet, his philosophy was much like TLR's. In fact, he told a newspaper reporter that it would be unfair for his subs not to get to utilize what they learned in practice in the game situations. Moreover, he reasoned that if an injuried occurred that the other players would be more prepared. He was the best coach that I have ever played for because he would stick to his philosophy. What kind of message does it send to pull out Carp when he is rolling along in a game. We are going to play as hard as we can to win but as soon as Carp rolls thru 6 or 7 innings with only 70 pitches I am going to pull him. The fine line comes in when Carp might those that mental edge of closing games out. I don't have all the answers, but I do know that Tony wants to win just as bad as I do. And he has far more experience than all of us combined. I'm not sure about the message part, what sort of message does it send to the bullpen when you never use them and what service does it do to them if you don't use them in tight games? We're not in a must win scenario. Plus, Tony is the same guy who played a bunch of his bench players towards the end of last year to the point where it rankled Cubs and Astros fans alike?

I suggest Tony start pulling Carp after 6 innings from here on out, unless the game is in doubt, and regardless of how Chris feels about it. I would rest him for at least two starts in Sept, as you say will be done. I would also do this for Morris, who looks like crap lately. With as big a lead as you have, both in the division and for home field, and with the Astros leveling off, I can't think of one good reason to keep going full bore, even in August. Why 6 innings? Are innings more important than pitch counts? Why so literal? I agree with what xzero's saying, we need to back off the pedal with Carp. If it's a blow out game, take Carp out. Even if it's not, I also agree we have nothing to gain and everything to lose. He's not a show pony, he's a key component to a deep playoff run.

I'm just not sure what you mean by Womackesque mistake. the Cards brought him in for a year, not surprisingly he had a career year, and the Cards let him go. are you talking about the Yankees when you refer to him as a mistake? Yes, in comparing the mistake the Yankees made putting stock into his fluke performance of one year.

I checked out Mike Lincoln's numbers last year, and they really weren't anything to get excited about. He was OK with the Pirates, but really, any disappointment about his injury has been more than made up for with Al Reyes' extremely unexpected performance. I don't think anyone is saying that the Cardinals have been lucky in terms of injuries this year. The lucky part is that guys like Abraham Nunez, Chris Carpenter, and Julian Tavarez (among other) have been much better than anybody could have expected when they signed with the Cards. Anyone who thought Nunez could be this good in 2005 is either an optimistic family member or completely insane. Truffle, I agree with you on expectations for Nunez, but humor me here. Given that he's put up these numbers with regular playing time all year, would you entertain bringing him in as your starting 2nd baseman next year? It's been brought up on our board if we can't resign Grudz. Or would that be a colossal Womackesque mistake? I'm a little up in the air on whether it would be more risky to have Nunez, a severe fluke over his career numbers this year, or to sign a 35 yr. old Grudz with an injury history to a multiple year contract if he demands it.

Maybe I follow Houston more closely than the other teams, just thought it was a good topic for discussion. The Astros glaring need is a bat to stick in the middle of that lineup. I don't know if one bullpen arm would help the Mets or the D-Backs, Philly has been inconsistent all year (including their starting rotation). Plus, it seems that every team is looking for bullpen help, while the outfielders were a little easier to come by and Houston definitely has the trading chips.

My vote's for Houston. Of all the NL division/wild card contending teams, Houston dropped the ball if you ask me. If they added one solid outfield bat, it would go a long way toward their post season chances. All the other teams were either expecting players returning (i.e. Cubs and Cards), have more than one hole, or didn't have the bargaining chips. I'd be angry if I was a Stros fan with those top three starters all healthy and firing down the stretch run.

this is exactly what I figured the response would be. there seems to be alot of Card fans who refuse to question anything Larussa does or says, no matter how stupid. ok, so LaRussa wasn't leaving him in to accumulate innings. so exactly why was LaRussa leaving him in blowout games? because all the games listed above were critical games the Cardinals had to have? with the way the Cards pen has performed, why did he leave him in some of those 2-3 run ballgames? was the first game of the series at Busch with the Cubs on a 100 degree night really so important for the Cards to win, or would the better decision be to see if the pen could match Z and give Carpenter a few batters off? and the last series against the Cubs, with the way the Cubs offense was struggling, was it really necessary to keep him in after the Cards took a three run lead in the seventh? was that game critical, or was that a good opportunity to save a little wear and tear? as for Z, I don't think there is a Cubs fan on this board who doesn't hate the way Dusty handles his pitchers. although I didn't like it, like mentioned above, the circumstances are completely different. every game is critical for the Cubs right now, therefore you may have to push your starters a little harder. my comments had nothing to do with Baker. why can't there ever be a discussion about LaRussa without the Card fan saying "well what about Baker." nobody likes Baker and everyone questions everything he does already. he's an idiot. why is so hard for so many Card fans to admit that so many of the things LaRussa does and says are completely idiotic? Well, you won't hear me agreeing to "many of the things LaRussa does and says are completely idiotic", but I'd say the most valid complaint I've heard about LaRussa all year is his insistence on keeping his starters around to get the "win". As a result, Carp has pitched more innings than he needs to (whether they're easy innings or not) and Marquis has been abused. Not to mention, Marquis has been left in there too long to where the team blew their shot at winning the game and I'm sure it doesn't help his confidence. He's done this to Morris this year plenty of times also.

This year, a Cardinal starter hasn't missed a start. There is no comparison between the injuries the Cubs have suffered this year and those the Cards have suffered. Cards do deserve credit for how well their bench as played - probably have done better than the regulars would have. I'm not saying which team has been hit harder by injuries (although perhaps the nod goes to the Cubs and I'm not entirely sold on that), but I don't think you can consider an injury not as severe because one team has better replacements than the other. Timing of injuries IMO is only a factor when they coincide with each other. The Cubs were hardest hit when Prior and Wood were gone at the same time. The Cards were hardest hit when four of our regular position players were down at the same time.

at .255/.292/.365, it's kind of hard not to. But you'd agree it's better than .163/.227/.229 or .218/.232/.290. Plus, you know we miss Molina's game calling and defense. Not everyone can have a Barrett.

I don't think Rolen will be back in any meaningful way. I think Walker will be useful to us in the post season only. I don't doubt Sanders will be back and useful. Molina will help a ton; I know Cubs fans disparage his offense quite a bit. He is the most missed player of the four simply because he has been the most difficult to replace.