oldcubsfan

wow. how can pagan be said to have "done his time" in the minors yet still be considered an unknown? he had 2500 mediocre at best minor league ab's...i think it was pretty clear what he brought to the table (not much). Pagan spent 6 years in the minors. That's "doing your time." He never made it to the show, meaning it was an unknown how he'd perform at the ML level. That's all I meant by calling him an "unknown." actually a guy's minor league numbers can be a pretty good indicator of what type of major league player he'll be. he was quite "known". and what a surprise...pagan's big league numbers were right in line with his career minor league numbers...terrible. Yes, they can be a pretty good indicator, but they're not the ultimate say on what a player will do. Minor league do not always translate. Would you like me to list the myriad examples of this? There are tons of players who can rip apart the minors but can't get it done in the majors. Likewise there are some players that aren't world burners in the minors who can contribute at the ML level. Pagan is one of those, IMO. Sorry I don't have a stat to show that. I tend to agree with you. Here's two recent guys with awesome minor league numbers but can't hit major league pitching-DuBois and Restovich. Great fastball hitters, but the old curve kills them.

He's too valuable as a starter to be converted to closer. I think I read somewhere that they were considering doing just that.

I think your use of "needs to be shot" is juvenile and should be pulled as a comment. Little wonder people look at messages boards as something populated by childish minds. sorry Rob, but you should find a different way to post your continual displeasure with the team. Maybe you should find a different team. The "needs to shot" comment is way over the edge.

And what makies Duncan and Mazzone so special as PC? Mazzone lived off of Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine for atleast 14 yrs. Outside of those three HOFers, Mazzone was pretty much an average pitching coach. And outside of Carpenter, Duncan hasn't done much in St. Lou. He has had more talented pitchers lost then pitchers he help. I mean Smith, Ankiel, Al. Benes, etc, etc. So again...why are Mazzone and Duncan the end all to all pitching coaches? Duncan repeatedly has turned mediocre journeymen into solid pitchers. And Mazzone has been the PC for an enormous number of pitchers' best seasons, including Kevin Millwood, Steve Avery, Kyle Farnsworth, Mark Wohlers, Ligtenberg and a host of other more or less mediocre middle relievers that he got the most out of. Both of their staffs have routinely been better than those of Larry Rothschild. I assume you are aware that the Braves didn't dump him, they traded him for JD Drew.

both Church and Wilkerson are LF's now. Neither team thinks they can really play CF. Heck, the only thing Washington has really said is that promise Church a chance to compete for the LF job.

Once again you spew out absolutes with out thinking the subject through. If he pitches well, you have him under control for several more years at a resonible rate, why would you trade him? Unless you get a lot, you hold him. If he doesn't pitch much, then there is nothing to do.

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above. And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis. I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis. Sean Marhsall Carlos Marmol Juan Mateo There was really no point to this signing. Those pitchers didn't step up last year enough to count on them starting this year.

A little pessamistic aren't we? I think he is stating the facts. Lilly + Marquis = 17+ Million. Why not just overpay for Zito with that $$$? Zambrano + Zito is a pretty good 1-2 punch. Zito just isn't that good. Lilly and Marquis will win more games together than Zito will. That's why overpaying with a 6 year deal is nonsense. Even the Mets won't do that.

who will everyone hate this year?

Any reason or just your first not deep thought?

I know you are a mod, but you really aren't funny. Thanks to you also for setting me straight. No problem. Little wonder...

I know you are a mod, but you really aren't funny.

Let's put this Dunn talk in perspective, if the Cubs get him, there is ONLY one position to hide his horrible defense and that position is taken by the fan favorite-Matt Murton. Dunn is the only LF that makes Murton look very good on defense. Funny how other teams don't seem to be as impressed by his OBP. He'll get traded, but you will be surprised how little they will actually get for him.

I think they have multiple offers out to several pitchers, whoever comes back to finalize will be the one they sign. This is pretty standard in baseball. heck they Cubs offered Randy Wolf a 3 year deal, but he wanted to pitch on the west coast, near his mom.

Thank God. Unless you've had a chance to see the destructive influence the Bonds circus has had on the Giants organization, you can't realize how bad an idea this is. He's a cancer, and one on his last legs at that. Steer well clear. Nonsense

Who really cares if someone is liked by the press? I don't. I think most of the press are lazy failures who are jealous of the players.

Well, I'll take Bonds in LF over someone who played 3 months with 200 AB's and 13 rbi's. Pagan can spell Bonds.

I always think it's a matter if a guy is "our prick" or someone else's. I watch performance and could not care any less how a player is with the press.

i agree... i would love this... but DEFENSE??? :shock: Not much worse than Murton in LF. Bonds was once a Gold Glove OF, something Murton will never be. I'd trade Murton for a pitcher.

Can you imagine the numbers DLee could put up with Bonds batting behind him? Not forgetting the numbers Barry could put up with ARam behind him?

Comcast

It's Bruce Miles, and all the other sites got their information from the San Fransisco Chronicle. They probably got their info from Schmidt's agent, which Bruce said was probably a false rumor that the agent thought up. I doubt that SI.com and ESPN would have it as such big news if there was only a blurb about it in the San Francisco Chronicle. Rotoworld, yes, but not SI or ESPN. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/28/schmidt.cubs/index.html Thats from the main baseball page from a reporter over at SI.com Yea I wasn't aware Bruce Miles' word was absolute truth these days. I never said it was. Tell you what, guys, I'm done with this thread. We'll sort it all out after Schmidt either signs or doesn't sign with the Cubs. I gave you my best information as I have it as of this moment. Have fun. Sorry to hear that. I appreciate your info, but your response seems at a lillte bit overly sensitive. Are you saying that the Cubs haven't approached Schimdt's agent about a deal at all? I agree you are the best Cubs beat reporter, but do you think John Heyman is just making this up? I think he is highly respected in the industry for his work, so I just wonder if it is the contract details you think are wrong or the whole story? thanks for participating on the board. I know I appreciate your efforts.

That sounds like they did some checking into it at least. Sounds like they actually talked to Hendry. John Heyman is a very good reporter, who wrote for Newsday before SI. He has many, many baseball contacts. Maybe the offer isn't a formal one, but you know the discussions have taken place.

I wouldn't put too much stock in those reports. Why?

I have heard several opinions on both of these, and we will just have to disagree on the accounting, no big deal. I appreciate your reasoning.