oldcubsfan

Can your mom get on base like Murton does?[/quotethat's why he should be in the AL.]

They were #2 and #3 in ERA in an absolutely loaded league(Both made BA's top 20 for the Southern League as well, IIRC). Pinto and Nolasco are good prospects. You may think that they are worth Pierre, but let's not devalue them by calling them 'mediocre at best' or 'middle relievers'. Feel free to call them whatever you want. I wish to call them middle relief prospects. Why? Because neither has a "plus" pitch and nothing exceptional, good minor league pitchers but nothing special.

Put him into a package for Tejada. My 84 year old mother throws better than Murton, probably judges a fly ball better too.

They were #2 and #3 in ERA in an absolutely loaded league(Both made BA's top 20 for the Southern League as well, IIRC). Pinto and Nolasco are good prospects. You may think that they are worth Pierre, but let's not devalue them by calling them 'mediocre at best' or 'middle relievers'. Feel free to call them whatever you want. I wish to call them middle relief prospects.

the pitching prospects given up were mediocre at best. You have to give up something to get a player, I like Pierre. Everyone gripes about a leadoff hitter, now we have one. Everyone hated Mitre and neither of the others are great prospects. I'd rather have a leadoff hitter than a bunch of middle relievers.

But not as good. Last I saw, Pie is hitting a blazing .208 in winter ball.

There are 20 teams that are in desperate need of a RFer? :shock: Kinda makes me wish Hendry put a little more priority in filling that spot. Jason Lane was #10 in ops and Encanarcion #12. What say you? Unless you want to give up Z or Prior, the Cubs aren't getting a star for rf, and Giles just wasn't happening. Too bad the Cubs didn't have an opening in RF the year Vlad was a free agent. With a little forsight they could have worked some magic. Then again we did have an opening at SS and that didn't seem to get them Tejada. Who was going to take AGonz off the Cubs hands in 2003? The Cubs aren't the Yankees. They rarely sit $6 million players. AGonz was Ed Lynch's signing correct? Yes, the Cubs have some major holes to fill still, but so do the top 2 franchises in baseball, the Yankees and Red Sox. Those rotations aren't going to take them far in the playoffs. Patience. You are being way too logical.Logic has nothing to do with it. Excuses and playing it safe are not the answer anymore. Hendry is full of them. Logic has everything to do with it.

There are 20 teams that are in desperate need of a RFer? :shock: Kinda makes me wish Hendry put a little more priority in filling that spot. Jason Lane was #10 in ops and Encanarcion #12. What say you? Unless you want to give up Z or Prior, the Cubs aren't getting a star for rf, and Giles just wasn't happening. Too bad the Cubs didn't have an opening in RF the year Vlad was a free agent. With a little forsight they could have worked some magic. Then again we did have an opening at SS and that didn't seem to get them Tejada. Who was going to take AGonz off the Cubs hands in 2003? The Cubs aren't the Yankees. They rarely sit $6 million players. AGonz was Ed Lynch's signing correct? Yes, the Cubs have some major holes to fill still, but so do the top 2 franchises in baseball, the Yankees and Red Sox. Those rotations aren't going to take them far in the playoffs. Patience. You are being way too logical.

Just to belabor a bit more, I think part of this is his own choice, and partly the result of having some prospects too good to surrender easily. It may be that Hendry is *not* offering Murton, or Cedeno, or Pie, or Guzman. Perhaps not even Hill. For Tejada or Dunn, sure. But I don't think he's shopping many of those kinds of prospects for Aubrey Huff or earlier for Brad Wilkerson. I think he's seeing most of those guys (perhaps not all...) as A prospects who he won't trade except for a very good major leaguer. If a couple of those guys weren't quite so good, and were more in the B+ class like Nolasco or Brendan Harris or Beltran or Bobby Hill when they were traded, Hendry might have alittle more to work with. But he's kind of asking a lot from his farm. He wants it to fill LF (Murton) and SS (Cedeno), the Maddux rotation spot (Guzman or Hill), he's already spent farm parts to get Pierre, and he still wants the farm to have enough left over to get a good RF and a good middle infielder. All this while having two recent farm graduates integral guys in the pen (Ohman and Wuertz), plus having another youngster (Williams) already in the rotatin. Not a lot of farm systems have that kind of blend of quality and quantity and depth. You make excellent, rational posts. Thanks.

So the A's get Bradley and Perez for a 2nd tier prospect. Sounds like a great deal for them. See, the difference between a good GM and ours. Colletti wasn't going to trade Bradley to the Cubs. Not for Walker. Not once they hired Grady Little, who managed him in Boston. He obviously didn't want him.

I'd rather have a leadoof hitter and someone who can run. You have to give up something in a trade. None of the three will be star pitchers, most likely long relief guys.

Ramirez is obviously a better player offensively, however, we expect different offensive production from SS and 3B. I'm just throwing that out there. I wouldn't trade ARam for Tejada straight across. Yeah, but at what point is production just production? You're just shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. You don't get better by losing ARam and gaining Tejada, you just changed the production to a different position. Plus, there aren't any decent 3B options out there to deal for or sign. There are at least a couple of decent SS options, and one of them is on your team. preachin' to the choir, brother. plus offensive production at SS is a luxury, not a priority. Tejada should only be pursued if he costs us minor league talent and even then there are limits. I think it safe to say the there will be no deal for ARam, that's only talk radio junk. However, offensive production doesn't matter what position produces it, be it SS or RF. Tejada is a wonderful player and I agree with you about getting him for mostly prospects. No one in the farm system is a "can't miss" prospect. If they turn out to be good players, so be it. You need to give up something in a trade.

Are you aware that the Cubs had a higher OBP last year than the 2 teams in the world series? Pitching wins.

Baltimore would free up a lot of cash to go after pitching with the first deal.

Why give up anyone for Bradley. Dec 20th he will be non-tendered. Yankees want nothing to do with him and neither does Toronto. The dodgers options are running very thin.

If true, then the market for Walker is really drying up. That could be a blessing in disguise. True, but Walker, if traded properly, could help us net a corner OF. I really don't think there is much demand for Walker.

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker. Tejada last year: 304/.349/.515/.864 Walker last year: .305/.355/.474/.829 Try RBI's and HR's. Selective use of numbers is meaningless. NO ONE in baseball would try to equate Todd Walker being the equal to Tejada. seriously...post of the day. you say, 'try rbi's and hr's.' then the VERY NEXT SENTENCE you say selective use of numbers is meaningless. was it hard to type that w/ a straight face? Don't you feel all numbers are important?

Has anyone said this? I know that I've said Walker is close to being as good as Tejada, but I never said he was better, and I don't think anyone else has. Think Baltimore would take him for Tejada? Throw in anyone else also? I know what the answer from Baltimore would be-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Todd Walker being a better ballplayer than Tejada is just plain laughable.

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker. Tejada last year: 304/.349/.515/.864 Walker last year: .305/.355/.474/.829 Try RBI's and HR's. Selective use of numbers is meaningless. NO ONE in baseball would try to equate Todd Walker being the equal to Tejada. i can guarantee that if walker played a full season batting third he would have 100 rbis and 20 home runs. home runs aren't everything, their SLG should tell you that No it doesn't show me that. History shows that he hasn't. Projecting numbers is a wonderful fantasy, but history shows he hasn't done that and won't.

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker. Walker also get favorable platoon match ups. And yes I know for the first time in his career last year he hit leftys well but still this should be considered. If people on this board truly believe Todd Walker is a better ballplayer than Tejada, well then.....

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What were his numbers last year? No way is he comparable to Walker. Tejada last year: 304/.349/.515/.864 Walker last year: .305/.355/.474/.829 Try RBI's and HR's. Selective use of numbers is meaningless. NO ONE in baseball would try to equate Todd Walker being the equal to Tejada.

Because he isn't really that great of an offensive player. We got slightly less production from Walker last year that we would probably get from Tejada this year. Just because he plays a positon were offense is scarce doesn't mean we should overpay for him, especially if it is possible to upgrade more cheaply at another position. What? You think Walker produces anything near Tejada? That really makes me scratch my head wondering if I look at different numbers and evaluation of talent.

No way. We'd cripple ourselves. In what way? Cedeno isn't going to play SS and he doesn't have the bat for second IMO. Pierre is going to sign a 3 or 4 year deal with the Cubs so that gets rid of Pie. The pitchers would hurt but they might be gone for a Dunn or Abreu anyway so why not get a bat that covers a postion that most teams don't have one? We still need a RF, and there aren't any good ones out there. What do we have left to trade at this point? After the Pierre trade and this, there's nothing even remotely close to Major League ready that's of any worth. It also rids you of any rotation depth you have. Now you're looking at Prior, Z, Wood, Maddux, Rusch, and Wellemeyer is the only starter that could step in unless you're JC. We've already dealt the top two AA arms, so Ryu, who isn't a great prospect is the best player that's closest to the bigs. Making that deal you settle SS, but you no longer have any trading chips to improve the team, and the only thing you get is a 30 year old average defensive SS that'll hit .350/.500 at 12.5 million per for 4 years. Terrible idea for the short and long-term. If there aren't any good RF, why not get a SS who produces like a RF? Then you can afford to go after one of those not so good RF. In Free Agency there isn't, and Tejada isn't a great hitter compared to other OF's. Tejada is a good player, don't get me wrong, but he's leaving his prime, has a hefty but manageable contract, and doesn't produce enough to justify selling the farm to acquire. the farm system doesn't possess any can't miss prospects, sorry, I trade them for Tejada.

Pie, Hill and Cedeno and a pitcher for him. Take Murton too.