BleedCubbieBlue81

You know, I look at that list, and I don't see BJ and the Bear anywhere on it. So I don't find TV Guide to be a very reliable source anymore. BJ and the Bear. Now there's a concept I can't get enough of... a man and his monkey.

Yeah, he's not going to be a lights out fireballer like Billy Wagner, but he's still getting it done. Until he proves otherwise, I think he should be the closer of this team from now on.

Doesn't matter to me. As long as he gets the save, I'm happy.

I hear Tom Arnold has a wicked slider. By the way, I never thought I'd see the day when Tom Arnold would be reference on these boards, especially in a thread about the Cy Young. So for that, you get a =D>

If I had my druthers, I'd keep him AND sign another starter or TWO, because I don't trust Wood's shoulder or whatever it may be next year. (I'm sure I'm not alone there.) Also, now that I finally understand the evil demon that Larry Himes was, I'd be really ticked to see the org screw Maddux again. And it's not like Maddux is washed up. Yes, he does drive me nuts when he gives up multiple HRs in a game, but as I have said before, he still has the uncanny ability to bring the big game just when it's most needed. And his first half was better this year, I THINK - he stepped it up with Wood and Prior out. And the second half is still pretty darn good. Heck, at worst we have a steady innings-eater at the 3rd-5th spot in the rotation. So it's $9 mil - but we have other better players at less than that - I figure it evens out. Plus, if we can pay Sammy $16 mil not to be a Cub and Alou whatever we paid him in severance, $9 mil for a consistently healthy and dependable SP (crossed fingers) is a bargain. What's the commotion? I guess a lot of people here would rather spend that money on Burnett. The decision is out of the Cubs' hands so the point is moot. Maddux will probably be back and the Cubs likely won't suffer too much from having him around. Do they retire his number when he makes the HOF? Hmm, I think they leave that to the Braves. He's going in as a Brave, so his number should be, and will be retired by the Braves. Has anyone ever had their number retired by more than one team that they played for? I know Gretzky's 99 is retired throughout the NHL, but that's different.

Stoney had a great comment about the White Sox. "The nightmare scenario for the Sox would be to finish with the best record in baseball, and then have to face Oakland as the wild card team." That couldn't be more true.

The Cards are the best team, that's why I think they'll win it all. They were the best team last year too, they just caught a team with the momentum of Cecil Fielder riding a freight train. They played well throughout the playoffs, and then just didn't execute in the series. But that doesn't give me any reason to believe that it will happen again just because it's the same guys on the team. The Red Sox had the same team last year as they had in '03. (with a few slight changes) But they didn't collapse like they did in '03.

There ya go. Let's face it, are there EVER any opinions swayed about ANYTHING on these message boards? This isn't exactly a revelation. Don't poke the bear... I think he was pointing out the fact that you finally backed up your argument, not that opinions can't be swayed. This isn't Cards Talk. People here are willing to listen to opposing arguments, and many opinions get swayed. Look around for a while, you'll see what I mean. While there are some homers on here, there are also some very good baseball people, unlike some other message boards. And on that note, it's lunchtime.

Wood walks entirely too many people to be a closer. He's been good lately, but he's only pitched in 7 innings. Dempster is doing his job, he's getting the outs. Doesn't matter how hard they're hit, as long as they're hit at someone. He's been a little shakier lately, but until he proves to everyone that he CAN'T close, we can't take that spot away from him.

See, that's the thing. From reading that, it sounds like you assume that Clemens doesn't want to go out there for the 9th inning. You have no way of knowing he doesn't want to. There is a very good chance Garner is just being SMART about it and pulling him early. Just because he pulled himself out of one game after 8 innings does not mean he doesn't can't finish, or doesn't want to be out there every other game. Maybe. I think a smart manager knows when a guy is "spent", and doesn't have to assume that he's done after 7 innings. Either Garner isn't very sharp, or Clemens truly is "spent" after 7. I don't know. I haven't seen enough of Clemens' games to say one way or another. I know that Carpenter would go out kicking and screaming if he were pitching well and Larussa tried to pull him. Another issue might be the fact that he's not getting any runs, so Garner may feel compelled to pinch hit for him late in games, to try to get something going. Looking at his pitch counts, he hasn't given himself a CHANCE to go into the 8th and 9th innings all that often, because he's working pretty hard to get through the first 7 (kinda like what you guys see with Prior). It's hard to believe that a guy with Clemens WHIP is averaging 100 pitches through 7 innings. I haven't seen him pitch very often, but he must be running up alot of counts, for whatever reason (Not wanting to challenge hitters? I don't know). It's probably a combination of alot of things, and quite frankly, I'm probably being overly critical because I'm a "homer". :wink: Honestly, it's probably a combination of all those things. Garner is probably protecting his 43 year old arm a little bit, but Clemens might just be spent by that time. We don't know. The pinch hit thing makes a ton of sense, and I think someone mentioned that yesterday. He throws a lot of pitches because that's the way he pitches. He throws out of the zone a lot to get guys to chase or throw them off. He is a lot like Prior, both strikeout pitchers that work there way around the zone, and often go outside it. Carp may have to be dragged kicking and screaming, but for a guy that has only gone 200 innings once in his career, and then immediately had to go on the DL after that, he might want to be smart and let the bullpen do some of the work. No one here is ripping you for being a homer or a Cards fan. The fact is, most of the people that have posted in this thread probably hate Roger Clemens. I know I do. So they aren't just choosing a side. They're ripping you for ignoring facts when they are presented and making assumptions like Clemens is incapable of finishing a game.

Haha, yeah, that probably helps

If Griffey does end up on the Sox, they'd be nuts to play him anywhere but center field. He can DH from time to time to save some energy, but he's better than any outfielder they have. I think it'd be great for Chicago to have another big name superstar in town, but from what I hear about the Reds, they aren't going to move him.

See, that's the thing. From reading that, it sounds like you assume that Clemens doesn't want to go out there for the 9th inning. You have no way of knowing he doesn't want to. There is a very good chance Garner is just being SMART about it and pulling him early. Just because he pulled himself out of one game after 8 innings does not mean he doesn't can't finish, or doesn't want to be out there every other game.

Ah, so I see he's pitching better for them than he was for us. :lol:

A friend of mine is a Cardinals fan. He just told me something that I had to check on myself to believe. The Cardinals are 16 games over .500 on the road. That's pretty amazing. But what's even more amazing is that there is not one other national league team over .500 on the road. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. That's simply amazing. No wonder they have such a big lead.

Damage to property, that's one reason. Drunk people urinate all over the buildings around Wrigley after games. They throw garbage on people's lawns, break windows, etc. Plus, it's pretty hard to sleep when 39,000 people erupt right next door. Then after the game they wander around the outside of the stadium for hours. During the day, the urination and litering doesn't happen as much. I know it sounds crazy, but its true. People are much more bold when they have the darkness to hide them.

Did anyone happen to see the political cartoon in the Sun Times yesterday regarding this topic? I thought it was good. It showed two football players sitting on a bench, with Tinky Winky (the Teletubby) dancing in front of them saying "Go Team". The players said something like, "I know this is the only mascot left that the NCAA hasn't banned, but I just can't see myself rallying behind it." Wish I could find the picture to post it.

Yeah, watch Rescue Me and you won't be disappointed. It's really a very good show. A lot better than I thought it was going to be. I like watching Veronica Mars because I'm in love with her. If Kristin Bell wasn't on the show, there really wouldn't be a reason to watch it.

Like I said, if there is no opposing stance, then why even ask the question? It's fine to have an opposing stance. That was the nature of this thread. But you might want to back it up with something more than "Clemens isn't durable."

What I think is funny about this whole Griffey thing is that the White Sox said if they got him, they wouldn't have an everyday position for him. For Ken Griffey Jr.? I know they like their outfield, but give me a break. Not one of those guys is fit to carry Griffey's bag. When you get a guy like him, you make room for him.

:shock: That's pretty impressive. I still think that if we are overpaying Maddux next year, it is the least of our many problems. Yeah, outside of that Arizona game, he's been pretty solid. But you're right, we have other problems that should be addressed first.

TOUCHE' I THINK WE MAY SEE GUZ NEXT SPRING, HOPEFULLY MADDUX RETIRES/GOES TO LONG MAN IN THE PEN, AND THE 5TH GOES TO HILL/WILLIAMS I'd rather see Hill/Williams go to long man in the pen and keep Maddux in the rotation. Check the numbers, he's been one of our best starters lately. And I'm not sold on either Hill or Williams right now. But as JC said, if he does actually retire, I'd love to see the Cubs throw some money at Burnett and see if he bites.

If he can somehow pull out another 14-15 win season this year, quite possible, but he hasn't gotten the run support in many of his games, then I think he could still be a valuable part of this rotation. Yeah, we'd be overpaying for him, but I'd rather overpay for him, then have guys like Jerome Williams out there. An over-the-hill Maddux > Jerome Williams any day of the week. Greg said if he feels he can still perform at a level that will keep him at a decent spot in the rotation, he'll come back. I think he can still be a very good 4th or 5th starter, and I for one would like to see him back. Edit: Just some stats about his last few starts. He's definitely a better second half pitcher. Greg's last 8 games: 8/16 vs. HOU - 7.0 IP, 1 ER Win 8/11 vs. STL - 9.0 IP, 4 ER Win 8/06 vs. NYM - 7.0 IP, 2 ER Loss 7/31 vs. ARI - 4.0 IP, 6 ER Loss 7/26 vs. SF - 8.0 IP, 2 ER No Decision 7/21 vs. CIN - 5.0 IP, 3 ER No Decision 7/16 vs. PIT - 8.0 IP, 2 ER Loss 7/10 vs. FLA - 8.0 IP, 0 ER Win Over those 8 games, he's had three games where he's given up only 2 runs, and got either a loss, or a no decision. There was also one game where he only gave up 3 runs and got a no decision. Had he gotten some help in those games, he'd have quite a few more wins.

I think the Red Sox have to at least be considered in this. They may not have the pitching they had last year. But they did at Clement to their staff. You only need three arms for the playoffs. I don't know what they plan to do with Schilling, but I can't see him closing the rest of the year. He's there to win games, not close them out. The Cards are my pick to win it though. If they get healthy, that line up is too strong. Edmonds needs to find his groove though. He doesn't look like the same guy he was last year. I'm gonna say the Cards beat Atlanta in the NLCS, and the Red Sox beat the A's or White Sox in the ALCS. Then the Cards beat the Red Sox in the world series, and we all cry and contemplate if there really is a God for a full year.

And I also think LaRussa should start cutting Carpenter's workload. The guy has gone over 200 innings once in his career (ended up on the DL the next year). There's a chance he might not have the stamina to keep this up through the playoffs.