BleedCubbieBlue81
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Everything posted by BleedCubbieBlue81
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Ah, the good ol' preemptive strike. I always followed the "shoot first, ask questions later" philosophy. But punching jaws might save me some prison time. Thankfully, no one was after me last night.
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Sadly, Dontrelle has pitched himself right back into the Cy Young race and should be considered (not favored... yet) in most discussions. But I see your point.
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Girl next door... hands down.
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Yep, and I need to get some work done as well. Bye guys, it's been a thin slice of.... well, it's definitely been a slice of something.
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Um, no. You can't win if you don't score. You can pitch 50 straight scoreless innings, but it means nothing if you're team can't score. You cannot win without scoring at least one run. (Negatives are impossible in baseball, even if Ditka is on the mound)
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Can someone please provide some sort of proof of how his presence on the bench is worth anything other than just spouting off the same tired line over and over? It doesn't look like him leaving Atlanta hurt them, and the Cubs haven't gotten any better since he's arrived. No pitcher has improved. Exactly what has his presence meant to this team? Is it possible that all this talk of Greg's mentoring ability was nothing but talk? Could it have just been a bunch of overhyped romanticism fueled on by the conventional wisdom of a sport that feeds on BS, myths, superstitions, good ole' day gobbledygook and the unsubstantiated subjective ramblings of a collective group of people who absolutely despise the thought of objective analysis? Eh, a lot of our pitcher's have been quoted as saying Greg's presence has helped them in their games. He's helped them with the little things. They may not have performed well, but without him, they might have been worse. I think it was Koronka or another one of the young guys that said that Greg would help them out with how to pitch certain hitters, and where their hot zones were, etc. His advice isn't worth 9 million, but it adds to his overall value, even if it's slightly.
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This is probably a roundabout discussion, because both sides have valid points. But perhaps the reason we've had a merry-go-round bullpen this year is because they were so taxed at the start. None of them could handle the workload, so we had to bring up more and more guys. A fresh bullpen is more likely to pitch well than a taxed one. But I still see your point. It's not like Maddux has been horrible when he's out there eating innings.
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No, he's not easily the best pitcher. If he was, there'd be more than you and one other Cardinal fan on here saying he deserves the award. That's another one of those remarks you throw in just to get a rise out of people. You're trolling basically, but you're trying to cover it up. Keep it up...
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THE CY YOUNG IS NOT A TEAM AWARD! Wow, it's like talking to the wall here.
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Well, if that's true, than Albert Pujols deserves the Cy Young more than Chris Carpenter. Since he's the one that actually won the games for him.
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So once again, we get back to you wanting to base the Cy Young and a pitcher's value on his TEAM... which is the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
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We've covered this over and over again. Bruce Springsteen would have gotten the exact same results (a loss), if he had pitched that day. In the grand scheme of things, do you think that anybody is going to care in September whether the Astros lost that game 1-0, or 13-0? Therefore, Springsteen would have been just as valuable as Clemens that day, if he had been pitching. Unfortunately, Springsteen never got the chance. I know, the VORP doesn't think so. Wow, you're really reaching now. Clemens performance isn't less valuable because his team can't score. His TEAM'S performance is what is lacking, not his.
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Yeah, I read through that. Good points for both sides. They seem to downplay the zero run support Clemens got 8 times though. And there are also some that think that Carp's ERA is stellar as Clemens'. But that is to be expected on a Cards messageboard. If one of the Cubs were in the race, I'm sure there'd be a ton of bias here out of select posters too. The innings pitched thing brought up is a good point. They both are going to have over 200 innings, so really it's closer to a non issue at that point. But still, valid points on both sides there. And what's even more impressive is that it's a thread on Cards Talk, and there is not one post bashing the Cubs. :wink:
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So you base his value on his team scoring runs. That's what I thought. If he only gives up one run, he's given his team a great value because all they need to do is score two to win. If they can't do that, then his value was wasted. There is a huge value on keeping your team in the game. On that note, it's lunchtime.
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I counted six, I may be wrong. But hey, six starts gives him two more chances, granted it isn't much, but it's something. I want him to get it, but I don't think he will this year. When he's pitched well, he's been shafted with run support lately. In one of the earlier threads about this, it was posted that he has really gotten a lot of losses or ND when he gives up three runs or less.
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It is an accomplishment when you have an injury plagued rotation and an overworked bullpen. He saves those guys the extra work, and he puts in quality innings as opposed to just leaving someone in for extra innings and watching them get shelled.
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Wow. Well said.
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That's fine. But what I don't get it that everyone gets so mad about Maddux being paid that much to eat up innings, while Kerry Wood gets paid that much to be hurt. Why aren't as many people complaining about that. That's money that is completely wasted. While at least Maddux is out there earning a little of it. They're at least getting something for their buck with Maddux, as opposed to Wood.
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Yeah, that's what I see happening too. Especially if they have to play the A's. I can't see them doing that great in the postseason after the second half they've had.
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Yep, Clemens can really control how many runs his crappy offense gives him. The metrics tell enough to let us know that Clemens is having the better year.
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But you made it a huge factor when you assumed Clemens was throwing more pitches. Now that you found out he's not and that Clemens is throwing less, it's "pretty much a non-factor?" Don't bring it up if it's a non-factor. But it's okay, because Carp is "so efficient".
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Thanks man.
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Once again, you lie to make the statistics favor you. CARPENTER HAS THROWN MORE PITCHES THAN CLEMENS. Maybe the Astros are being smarter about this...
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A little off topic, but where did you find this stat? I'm curious what some of the Cubs pitchers are like in the late innings. And I don't know where to look for innings breakdowns like that.
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Carpenter is more effective that Clemens, Lidge, Izzy, Cordero..... everybody, in the late innings. So then you don't need Izzy then? Can the Cubs have him? Cause we're a team that believes the bullpen is there for a reason. Mainly so that you don't burn your starters into the ground when you have a huge lead on the division, and when they've only gone over 200 innings once. But I guess the playoffs aren't important right?