1wizard

ITB wrote: i think you're confusing "wins" with "name recognition" and "reputation." last year has nothing to do with this year's cy young. I assume you are referring to Clemens strong name recognition and reputation over Carp. I agree that Clemens will get additional votes based on that, yet last year RJ was almost as popular. Sure, last year should have everything to do with the Cy Young. Clemens lost in almost every pitching catagory except wins. So how did he win Cy Young? If wins are a poor indicator which everyone who is showing man love on here for Clemens is saying. So do we just make this a popularity vote or change the criteria from year to year to ensure the most popular pitcher wins the award. I understand this award is subjective by nature but it would not look good for MLB and the media to pick Clemens this year. I know he has been great this year, but so was RJ last year.

My memory is not the greatest, but I think Morris threw an off speed pitch that missed the batter (went behind him). And I do not recall that he did admit to throwing at the hitter. Usually pitchers hide behind the idea that it was accidental. :wink: Did Morris throw at someone after Z hit Edmonds? I cannot recall. Either way, I am not for pitchers throwing at hitters. And if Morris did so without a reason (retailiation for Z's actions) than that makes his actions bush league. On the other hand, I appreciate watching a good pitcher moving the hitter off the plate or trying to be intimidating. Carpenter, Prior, and Clemens are good examples of this.

I guess I'll take the bait. First of all, you are steroetyping the Cubs, Pirates, and Cardinal players based on the actions of a few. The discussion of whether Z is bush starts with him hitting players intentionally. Moreover, there are several posters (Cub fans) who did not appreciate his childish antics. For example, he hits Edmonds two times in one game. Then Z hits a batter with a fastball after giving up a dinger this year to another team (Brewers?). Even Santo denounced his actions as bush league that night. And the punishment from the league was way to light and the Cubs manager continued to show his reluctance to instill leadership by stating that it was not intentional and not reprimanding his pitcher. For that they are both bush. I personally do not think the Cubs team as bush. Prior seems to pitch high and tight and keeps it respectable. The argument between him and Morris seems like a rivarly thing that has not gone to far. As for the situation in Pitt, the situation heated up when Luna took out the Pirates second basemen on a clean slide into second (Friday night). The guy broke his ankle. The next day Albert was on first and the pitcher threw a pitch that hit So Taguchi on the hand. It appeared to be an intentional pitch. Atleast that is what Albert, Duncan and the rest of the team felt. Albert walked to second and had some words for the pitcher. The next day (Sunday) Duncan went out and talked to the pitcher and McClendon had words for Duncan. I am guessing that he did not like the fact that Duncan was talking to his pitcher and I do not blame Mclendon for feeling that way. Then I guess former Cardinal Gerald Perry sucker punched Duncan. Perry's actions were bush. As for Duncan, he should not have approached their pitcher. I think his timing was inappropriate and should have been done after the series. On the other hand, he probably justifies it by saying that he was sticking up for his players. Also, I am sure that the Cardinals continued drubbing of the Pirates helped spur the emotions from Perry and McClendon.

Gusdog, was Clemens the most deserving candidate last year? If I had my choice of pitchers, I would have taken Johnson last year and Carp this year. I was not comparing CARP's stats exclusively to Clemens stats last year. My main point is that Clemens won last years award despite not having the better ERA, Whip, k's, or more innings; it was all about the wins last year. Now Clemens now leads in ERA and Whip and cannot win because his team cannot score (see Johnson, Randy). A change in voting would be hypocritical and yes I do expect some consistancy in voting. As for it being debateable, it is only name recognition that makes it so. If the two players switched situation/stats than there would be no argument at all. Clemens would be a land slide winner. Carp would get very little attention in the media.

Sure are different stories, and I don't think anyone would argue that. One is a pitcher who continues to have injuries related to mechanics; the other is a position player who continues to have collisions on the base paths (Choi and Cintron). Yet, they both are having similiar surgeries by the same physician. And I hope they both have speedy recovers.

Roger's stats last year: 18-4 ERA 2.98 K's 218 214 innings 1.16 whip RJ's stats last year: 16-14 ERA 2.60 K's 290 245 innings .90 whip Carp's stats this year: 20-4 ERA 2.28 K's 191 213 innings .98 whip Roger's stats this year: 11.6 ERA 1.57 K's 169 189 innings .92 whip Looking at the stats Johnson clearly had the better ERA (.38pts better), more K's (72 more), more innings (31 more), and a better whip (.26pts better). By the numbers, Johnson deserved the award last year, but Clemens had more wins. Is there any way that the media could justify giving this years award to Roger based on ERA only this year? The funny thing is that Carp's numbers are better than Clemens last year plus he is dominating in the area that Clemens' won the award on (Wins).

Clemens has had a great season, yet so did RJ last year. The main point is that Clemens won the award last year based on wins. This year he is losing in that catagory so everyone who has man love for Roger wants to change the criteria. Funny how that works. Roger does not deserve the award based on K's, Base on Balls, innings pitched, wins, CG, or team success. And to be blunt, his 1.57 ERA is not so impressive to warrent the Cy Young despite losing in almost every single catagory. Their whips are very comparable .92 to .98. Carp should win this hands down, IMO.

Well, I personally think Carpenter's performance just put him in the driver's seat for the Cy Young. Willis is the one that could be the biggest challenger for the award.

Itb wrote: Isn't your complaint of interleague play pointless too considering the interleague games are not the difference between the two teams records. As for Rolen and Wood, I hope they both are 100% healthy for next year. As a fan, I want to see them both at their best.

After last night performance, I would leave him in. They need him to be the "Ace" and stop this losing skid. :lol:

Does this performance help Carpenter's chances?

Garwilly wrote: We have a winner, I think?

Here is a test of your baseball Jargon knowledge: 1. Air it out A. A female baseball groupie 2. Banana stick B. A hit ball that skims the ground 3. Can of corn C. An easily played fly ball 4. Daniel Webster D. A pitchers arm 5. Greenfly E. An automated pitching machine 6. Iron Mike F. A thinly padded flat glove preferred by some infielders 7. Keystone G. A player known for arguing with umpires 8. Men in blue H. Bases loaded 9. Nightcap I. Second base 10. Pancake J. Bat made of poor quality/soft wood 11. Rabbit K. 2nd game of a double header 12. Soupbone L. To hit a ball a long distance, or to pitch a ball very fast 13. The table is set M. The bounce or liveliness of a ball 14. Worm burner N. The umpires

Bhogg wrote: I found this site for "schnide". http://www.vocaboly.com/forums/ptopic1313.html The best theory is this: .

Bhogg wrote: I found this site for "schnide". http://www.vocaboly.com/forums/ptopic1313.html The best theory is this: .

This is from a post dispatch poster on that site.

Here is one for you. I have never heard of a banjo hitter. banjo hitter A batter who lacks power. A banjo hitter usually hits bloop singles, often just past the infield dirt, and would have a low slugging percentage. The name has said to come from the twanging sound of the batter's swing like that of a banjo. This phrase has some Cub history: "Merkle Boner" Mental error that causes cost team the game, a good example would be forgetting the number of outs and tossing the ball into the stands, allow runners to advance. Origin: During a game on September 23, 1908, rookie New York Giants first baseman Fred Merkle singled to right field with two outs and a runner on first in the bottom of the ninth with the score tied. The next batter, Al Bridwell, hit a single to center and lead baserunner Moose McCormick scored the apparent winning run. As was customary, the Giants' groundskeepers opened the gates and the fans streamed onto the field toward outfield exit gates. It was also customary for the players to make a mad dash to the clubhouse in deep center field. Seeing McCormick cross the plate, Merkle immediately started running for the clubhouse also, not touching second base, which was also customary in those situations. Cubs second baseman Johnny Evers - a stickler for rules, and who had already had a discussion with umpire Hank O'Day about this in a similar occasion some weeks earlier - noticed that Merkle had not gone on to touch second. Evers called for the ball. Some say an alert Giants player, who caught on to Evers' intentions, tossed the ball into the crowd. Others say a Cubs outfielder tossed it. The story goes that two Cubs fans chased down a Giants fan that they thought had the ball, took the ball from the fan, and gave it to Evers. Whether the ball that Evers wound up with was the actual game ball, was and is still a matter of debate. In any case, Evers tagged second and appealed to umpire Bob Emslie, who had not seen the play and refused to make the call. He appealed to his partner, Hank O'Day, who granted Evers' appeal and called Merkle out on a force play. The Giants had left the field, which was swarming with fans, all celebrating the Giants' apparent victory, so umpire O'Day declared the game a tie. When this game was made up on October 8th with the Giants and Cubs tied in the standings, the Giants lost the game - and lost the pennant. The Cubs would go on to win their second - and, as of 2004, their last - World Series championship. "Both bonehead, meaning "stupid," and boner, meaning "a ridiculous blunder," predate that fateful September day, but there's no doubt that Merkle's boner did a lot to solidify the place of both terms in our language." - Merriam Webster's Word For The Wise

These are two baseball phrases that have been discussed in another thread. Can you think of any other good baseball phrases and/or origins for the phrase(s).

Thanks for the baseball lingo clarifications. I just love those old saying, and I am going to start another thread for others phrases.

I have always wondered where that statement originated from. Does anyone know? What about "a can of corn"?

ReggieMillerrules wrote: Don't forget MLB has him down as one of the best all-around players in a recent poll. Jeter might be one of the most over hyped players of all time and he will be one of the greatest players because of the love he receives from the media. I have heard several talking heads on ESPN say that he is the best SS of all time. :roll: Sorry but SS is still more of a defensive position and Jeter is a not in the same league as Ozzie, Cal, ARod, or numerous other SS throughout history of this great game. He is an offensive ss.

Doesn't Lee still have a shot at the MVP? I highly doubt that Lee would want to be sitting while Albert, Cabrera, and A. Jones continue to build upon their stats. If D. Lee only wins the BA title than he does not win the MVP, IMO.

Who? Rolen is toast this season, and if he does come back he will not be affective. I would much rather see him get the medical treatment (surgery) and be ready for spring training. At which time, they need to teach him to avoid colliding into players: Choi and Cintron.

Well said, UK.

The message is simple: I will use you when I need you. The bullpen is getting plenty of use thanks to Morris, Marquis, and Suppan. Man I would like to see you come take the ball from Carp in the 6th or 7th inning when he is cruising.