1wizard

There are Cardinal fans that do not question Tony's every move. I have yet to meet one. Most of Cardinal Nation has a dislike for his management style. I used to hate the way he managed, but it is hard to argue with the results he is getting out of his team. Moreover, the man will be a future HOF manager and is very competitive and prepared. Maybe just maybe, this guy knows what he is doing, and the rest of us are only writing about it on the computer. And maybe to shed some light on the Carp's innings/pitch count discussion, I will quote TLR himself. He stated during the Cubs series that "there is a very fine line between winning and losing." He went on to talk about how his team cannot afford to try to coast the rest of the season. Therefore, it is his philosophy that the team continues to push forward. The best analogy I can think of is a coach that I used to play for. He was known for his deadly full court press and would utilize it when the team is winning by a landslide. He was severly criticized for doing so. Yet, his philosophy was much like TLR's. In fact, he told a newspaper reporter that it would be unfair for his subs not to get to utilize what they learned in practice in the game situations. Moreover, he reasoned that if an injuried occurred that the other players would be more prepared. He was the best coach that I have ever played for because he would stick to his philosophy. What kind of message does it send to pull out Carp when he is rolling along in a game. We are going to play as hard as we can to win but as soon as Carp rolls thru 6 or 7 innings with only 70 pitches I am going to pull him. The fine line comes in when Carp might those that mental edge of closing games out. I don't have all the answers, but I do know that Tony wants to win just as bad as I do. And he has far more experience than all of us combined.

The Cards were robbed of that game because the umpire and hitter did not adjust to the strike zone. (according to the theory of consistantly hitting a location)

It happens and still could happen to the Cardinals. In fact, the Cardinals did not suffer any injuries until right before the playoffs last year: Carp and Kline. Despite popular belief, the Cardinal's pitchers are human and are suseptible to injuries too.

. That is correct. I thought it would be controversial and maybe miscontrued so I put it here. Looking back, I would not have done so. There is no doubt that Maddux benefits from his reputation. Strike two on Albert was about 4 inches in and set him up for the next pitch out and away. Ausmus also recieved a pitch that was out of the zone. I have umpired and officiated sports before, and it is difficult not to give the benefit of the doubt (boarderline pitches, etc) to those players that are more talented and/or have good attitudes. I think the umpires have curved the excessive strike zone, but he still gets more calls off the plate than most pitchers. I enjoy watching Maddux pitch, because he just knows how to pitch. Yet, my dad (one of you, little bear fans) always argues that if you can hit a spot consistantly than you deserve that call. If that is the case, Ankiel would be undefeated because he could hit the back stop with great accuracy. :lol:

Correct, but it also had an affect on the 2003 team. It is hard to replace an ace and team leader in the off season. jjgman21 wrote Not looking for sympathy. In fact, I was pointing out that all teams have injuries and debunking this myth that the Cardinals never have injuries to their pitching staff. Moreover, if any one was crying it was the previous posters (read the whole thread). As for TLR's handing of Carp, I am not worried about it. Carp is not struggling out there to get thru 9 innings; TLR is not just leaving him out there to rack up innings as you are alluding to. Was your fur ruffled when Dusty left Z in for the 9th inning last night? He threw 100 something thru 8 and ended with 116 pitches. That is more than Carp has thrown in any of his games the last two months. And to relieve your worries, TLR has already said that Carp, Mulder, and Morris will be getting extra days off in the coming month. The Cards are expected to call up Reyes and possible Wainwright to give the starters extra days between starts.

Lawton Walker (1st) ARam Nomah Burnitez/Murton Perez Barrett Patterson P

Injuries are a part of the game and the team just has to over come them. Moreover, the Cardinals have had their share of pitching injuries over the years. If you remember the 2003 seaon, the Cards had such great pitches as Estaban Yan, Jason Simontachi, Pedro Borbon, Brett Tomko, and Dustin Hermannson in their rotation due to injuries and the death of DK. So the Cubs are not in a position that the Cardinals have not faced in the recent years. Lastly, the Cardinals lost their ace last year right before the playoffs. And Matty Mo and Woody were both playing thru injuries in the playoffs.

I agree that Lee was extremely important at the beginning of the year, but he has not had the same influence on his team since the ASB. And if the Cards would not have Albert (I am hesitant to even imagine), their lineup would be really weak. I don't think a lot of people realize the influence Albert has on the team and how much he changes the course of a game (by just being in the lineup). Look at the lineup they keep winning with. Most of these guys are not every day players and have never been. The only three players that have been every day players are Eck, Edmonds (struggling mightly), and Grudz. Eck So Grudz Edmonds Mabry 1st Nunez JRod Mahony/Diaz P Compare to the Cubs w/o D. Lee: Lawton Walker ARam Nomah Burnitez 1st? (don't know who Dusty would play 1st) Murton Barrett Patterson P It appears that the Cubs lineup is more talented than that of the Cardinals. So I do not buy this agruement that the Cards would still be a playoff team w/o AP. I personally do not think they would be, especially considering the injuries to Walker, Rolen, Molina, and Sanders.

Truffle Shuffle Wrote: Rolen probably will not be a major contributor the rest of the season from all the reports I have read and heard. Moreover, I don't think he is the one that the Cardinals need back thanks to Nunez. The Cardinals need Larry Walker and Molina back. Those two guys, the pitching staff, and offensive contributions from Edmonds are the keys to the playoffs. If any one of those do not fall into place, it will be extremely difficult for them to get back to the WS. CCF Wrote: The same thing can be said for Bobby Cox. I don't agree with either. If a Tony LaRussa team loses a series, it's not because of Tony. Last year as an example, they just stopped hitting. I have never been a big fan of TLR, but I have gained a great deal of respect for the guy. He works extremely hard, and he always has his team prepared. I don't think it is fair to judge a manager or player based on WS Championships. If it were as easy has having talent than the Yankees would win every year. There are a lot of factors that go into being a World Champion: healthy players, favorable matchups (guarentee the WS do not want to face the A's), momentum of the teams (Red Sox were on fire last year), home field advantage, players getting hot or struggling, etc... Moreover, I find it funny how people make a statement like this player or manager will never win a championship. How do they know what that player or manager is capable of? Is that person in the locker room every night. Or do they really know what drives that person or team. Case in point, I remember when sports writers assumed that Michael Jordan will never win an NBA Championship. :roll: I guess they were right he won 6 of them. :lol:

I wonder how much of that is positioning for the possiblity that they will not be able to obtain him. From everything I have read, the Reds do not seem all that eager to move him. I would have a hard time believing that he would not be a regular OF for the White Sox. Of course, I could understand if they said they would like for him to move to Left, Right or DH every so often to save on his body. (huge investment) If I was the White Sox, I would be very hesitant to give up prospect and pay over $6 million a year for Grif.

BleedCubbieBlue81, I like the way you think. I too am going with the Cards in the NL and the Red Sox in the AL. The White Sox could greatly improve there chances with Griffey in their lineup though. As for the Cards, they need Walker and Edmonds to swing the sticks. If healthy, those two guys give the Cardinals the edge. Rolen and Sanders are just a bonus. Yadi is due back in the next couple of days and Walker is taking bp. Walker said he will be back soon.

Will Greg get 5 more wins this year? I hope he does. He has looked great the last two appearances. In fact, he has been the most reliable pitcher on the staff.

I have been a big Greg Maddux fan for a long time, and I will be the first to admit that he gets the benefit that most super stars get. There is different treatment for different players (see Michael Jordan). I really do not think it has changed much for Greg just because of the change of teams. The thing that I really like about Maddux's pitching style is that he rarely gives in to a hitter. It has always surprised me how many balls (non strikes) he throws in the course of a game. He just nibbles and does it so well that hitters end up hitting his pitches.

I am listening to the Cubs game on the radio, and Ronny Santo said that Maddux does not get the same strike zone that he used to in Atlanta. Does anyone believe this? I think Albert Pujols and Brad Ausmus might have a different opinion. I also think it is interesting to watch the Sunday ESPN's game of the week. The strike zone for those games are a little bit smaller. Prior had several pitches that looked like strikes that were not called.

I mentioned Jones before, but he has not been very consistant in his career. He has always been one of the top CF in the game but his offense and baserunning are not usually his forte. Plus, as you mentioned his ba is low.

At least while he played.

Cabrera is an average defender. Some would even consider him a below average defensive player. I would consider him one of the best offensive players for sure. I love watching the kid hit; he is a great offensive player. Neely Crenshaw wrote: I highly doubt D. Lee could swip 40 bases in a season. In fact, I think 30 is out of his reach. His most is 21 for the 2003 Florida Marlins. I don't think he is going to get as many opportunities as a number three hitter and he is not a stolen base threat in the traditional sense. He has to be very selective in stealing bases.

GusDog wrote: The middle ground might be that each side decides to agree to disagree. Or agree that the rest of the season might open up opportunities for Clemens or Carp to be a clear cut winner. I sure hope that is the case because if Clemens wins because of ERA alone than the whole process will look pretty questionable.

Sammywho wrote: You are right and I do appreciate it. I was a huge Ozzie Smith fan growing up, and he and Ryno were special. Yet, I think you would be in the minority.

. Is the Houston team still terrible? They are leading the WC so I really do not see how they are a terrible team.

Jay Dee wrote: If anyone had a 1.32 era , they would be talked about as a Cy Young candidate. And the national media loves the cardinals, so it is not like Clemens has the entire media behind him If Clemens had Carps' numbers there would be no debate. Clemens would be your land slide winner. ESPN, most writers, and talking heads would say it is about wins. Moreover, you would see more of the argument that Carp is just not going deep enough in games and his era would be worse if he did go deeper into games. I personally feel that Clemens' name recognition and age will help him if he continues to maintain his ERA despite not winning a lot of games.

For me, being an all-around player means having the five tools of baseball: speed, strong arm, hitting for average, hitting for power, and fielding. So that would be guys like Bonds in his prime, Larry Walker in his prime, Bobby Abreu, Carlos Beltran... Well said! Doesn't D. Lee and Albert have these tools at least compared to those in the league? I will admit that D. Lee and Albert are not your typical 5 tool players but they both are great athletes who are great at all facets of the game. I would have to put both of these guys before Jeter, Pudge/skinny, and Chipper Jones.

Truffle wrote: H3ll, they have made trades with the Cubs. I thought the Pirates were your AAA affiliate. Whew, I feel a little better now. I was concerned that the Cubs might bring Duke up to pitch at Wrigley. Well at least, the Cubs will have to give up a marginal prospect to acquire Duke in a few years.

Clemens is having an unbelievable year but if the rolls were reversed would Carp even be mentioned as a Cy Young Candidate? If Clemens had the 17 wins, second lowest ERA, more strikeouts, less walks, and more innings (7.5 innings per start), than he would have been given the award already. If Carp had the great ERA, won only 11 games, and only averaged 6.8 innings per start, he would be severly criticized for being the benefactor of not going deep in games. The logical argument would be that he would a higher ERA if he went deeper in games. I highly doubt Carp would even be close in the Cy Young vote. As it stands now, if Clemens wins the Cy Young, it would be a joke because RJ had the better stats last year and lost to Clemens because of wins. It would appear as if the media changes criteria to favor a higher profile pitcher.