1wizard

With D. Lee benefiting from yet another questionable hit, I ask the question how long does an official score have to change a call? With the ball hit up the middle both middle infielders touched the ball and yet a hit is given. Santo and Hughes were both surprised by the official scorer's call. Hughes made the point that the play should have ended the game thus he believe it was an error.

You are right that the team would change a call that was actually correctly made the first time.

This is pretty blatant cheating. The ball was hit right to the player; he did not have to move to his left or right. There was no doubt on this one according to the accounts I have heard.

I guess we now know why Lee is having such a good year. :wink: The Cardinal announcers have made this out to be a big point and it could be as close as these two are in the batting race. Shannon said that no one is suppose to question or talk to the official scorer about judgement calls. Does anyone really think he was pressured to change his original call? The ball was hit right at Nunez and should have been made from all accounts I have heard.

Lee's first at-bat was called an error. Now the scorer has changed it to a hit. That is sad when a team has to cheat to help their player out. :oops:

Sure I would cheer if a Cub fan was converted. That would be a great day for you and you would deserve to be rewarded. As for Big Mac, the fans will keep it respectful and give him a warm welcoming back to St. Louis. I imagine that every player will get a warm greeting from the fans. This is a great moment in Cardinal baseball.

Something dramatic has occured; he is a St. Louis Cardinal. Thus he will be very lucky for the rest of his career. :lol:

If you take away Yadi's terrible start to his rookie year (11-64), he would be hitting .280 (75-268). He just turned 23 in July, so I would imagine that he will only improve offensively after he gets some more experience.

TruffleShuffle wrote Nomar has never been a healthy SS for the Cubs. So yes I would take Eck over Perez. Molina's offensive numbers are respectable to considering that he started his Rookie year in a huge slump. He is going to be a good offensive player and a steller defensive catcher. He has only allowed only 12 stolen bases to Barrett's 64. Yadi has thrown out 23 to Barrett 19. You tell me who is the better catcher is. The rest of the league knows who the better catcher is because they know who they can run on and who they cannot. Walker has a slight offensive advantage but I would still take Grudz defense. He has a good shot at the GG at second and has done a great job turning dp's this year (101 DP's). Walker's defense is average at best. http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&section3=null&statSet3=null&sortByStat=G&statType=3&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2005&baseballScope=NL&prevPage3=1&readBoxes=true&sitSplit=&venueID=&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=4&box5=XXXX115210sln4&box11=XXXX123842chn4&compare.x=33&compare.y=8 Taguchi vs. Burnitez - Yes it is hard to believe someone could actually be better than a .261 hitter. Yeah, .261. But I would take So any day of the week over Burnitez. I find it funny how you think the Cubs players are all superior to the Cardinal players yet they cannot manage to be .500. I guess it is all the injuries they have suffered, the manager, the announcers, the schedule, or maybe just LUCK. Truffle, you are right the Cards are just lucky I guess and the Cubs are not.

I agree with most of what Ravitz writes about the MVP race this year. Yet, I think Lee should be a very close 2nd or win it. Yet, I am pulling for Albert for obvious reasons. Jones should finish no closer than 3rd. The Fantasy Hot Sheet sponsored by USA TODAY/ Sports Weekly NL MVP Breakdown September 15, 2005 By Nate Ravitz Since the amount of news in baseball is steadily dwindling as the season winds down, we'll use the Daily Dose over the next several days to break down awards races in each league. Today, the much-debated National League MVP race. The top contenders Albert Pujols The case for: Pujols is the best player on the best team in baseball. He currently ranks second in batting average and on-base percentage but has a great chance of leading the league in both categories. He also leads the league in runs and ranks second in RBI and third in homers. His play is the biggest reason the Cardinals haven't missed a beat despite the lackluster contributions of Scott Rolen, Larry Walker and, to a lesser extent, Jim Edmonds. The case against: There really isn't one, though he certainly isn't remotely close to the defender that Derrek Lee is. Andruw Jones The case for: Jones leads the league in homers and RBI, by a wide margin in both cases. He carried the team at times, especially in the middle third of the season when Chipper Jones was on the DL. The case against: Perception that the Braces are a one-man team isn't really accurate. Both Marcus Giles and Rafael Furcal have recovered from slow starts to post outstanding seasons, and Jeff Francoeur has been a sensation in the last two months. Jones' batting average (.277) and on-base percentage (.359), while respectable, lag well below Albert Pujols and Derrek Lee. Although Jones has a lot of big hits late in games, he's hitting .225 with runners in scoring position and .266 with runners in scoring position and two outs. Derrek Lee The case for: Lee leads the NL in batting average and slugging percentage, ranks second in home runs and runs and is tied for seventh in RBI. He has played Gold Glove caliber defense at first base and has been the only consistent performer for the Cubs this season. The case against: The Cubs are more than 20 games out of first place and far out of the wild card. Moreover, Lee's biggest advantage over Albert Pujols was batting average, and his lead in that category is shrinking by the day. Honorable Mention Miguel Cabrera - In his second full season, Cabrera has already hit more than 30 homers with 100+ runs and RBI, and he's likely to finish third in batting average. However, the Marlins have been a disappointment and Cabrera been only marginally better than teammate Carlos Delgado. David Wright - While the Mets have faded from playoff contention, they would have been out of the race months ago if not for Wright, especially considering the disappointing seasons of Carlos Beltran, Mike Cameron, Mike Piazza and Doug Mientkiewicz. Wright is fifth in the league in batting average and has played in all but two games for a team that has battled injuries all year. Morgan Ensberg - Although he's slowed down considerably, Ensberg is a big reason why the Astros have been able to stay in contention despite missing Lance Berkman early in the year and Jeff Bagwell for most of the year. Carlos Delgado - He's having another brilliant season, especially when you consider that it's his first in the NL (no adjustment period here) and he's playing in a pitcher's park. One Man's Ballot (which doesn't count for anything so don't get too excited): 1. Albert Pujols 2. Derrek Lee 3. Andruw Jones 4. Miguel Cabrera 5. Carlos Delgado 6. Bobby Abreu 7. Brian Giles 8. David Wright 9. Morgan Ensberg 10. Jeff Kent Apologies to: Jason Bay, Aramis Ramirez and Carlos Lee (whose .336 OBP all but disqualifies him).

That was and still might be the logic of the Cy Young discussion and also the logic why Pujols is not the MVP. If Clemens had the support that Carpenter had, then blah, blah, blah. As for the MVP race, Albert will probably be punished because his team has walked away with the division despite having better all around numbers than Jones. The same thing goes for Lee he will be punished for not being on a winning team. That is what makes the voting so complicated. At this point, I think that Lee or Albert have had the better all around year and one of them should win it. The risp stat does not reflect who has the better teammates. And Jones RISP is very low for an MVP.

Truffle Wrote: I am not forgetting that you have said the first part. It is that fact that you cannot concede that the Cardinals are a better all around team and actually have a very talented nucleus too. Looking from player to player (including pitching), I see very few spot where the Cubs have an advantage. 1st base - Even this year, Albert is better player over his short career 2nd base - Grudz, his defense is a lot better and is having a good season SS - Eck 3rd - ARam this year, Rolen if he is 100% C - Yadi is a far better defensive catcher and will be 2nd or 3rd in GG RF - This is Ugly but So and the bench is better than Burnitez CF - Not even close, And Jimmy has been one of the best CF in the game this year LF - Sanders until he was injuried then I would go with So over the rest of the Cubs whole outfield. Starting pitching The Cards will have two Cy Young winners on the staff after Carp walks away with it this year. Plus they were 2nd in the NL ERA last year and 1st this year. And the fact that the Cubs pitchers cannot be counted on because of injuries does not mean that the Cardinals consistancy is LUCK. If so I guess the Atlanta Braves of the 90's were lucky because their pitchers were all healthy. Bullpen Cards in a landslide even though their pen has been shaky this year. Manager TLR's dogs have more baseball knowledge than Dusty. Atleast they appreciate a walk. GM Jocketty has proven that he might be the best in MLB. That my friend is a whole lot of talent within an organization, and the main reason they have run away with the division.

Runs 1. Albert 117 2. Lee 110 11. Jones 87 RBIs 1. Jones 119 2. Albert 107 7. Lee 99 Runs Created? If you know feel free to post them. I personally think that the voters got it right when Sosa beat Big Mac. Mac had the homerun record but Sosa's numbers were just better. If Jones wins it because of HRs than it is a joke. I already know that ESPN's baseball cast are jokes.

I agree. It helps that ESPN is treating his every at bat like that of Barry Bonds. Plus other media sources are really putting some stock in AJ. I just find it hard to believe that Albert or Lee do not win it. Jones has had far more RBI opportunities and his supporting cast is far better than that of the Albert's. Moreover, I do not see how you can give the MVP to a hitter that is batting around .275 when you have two guys batting .340ish with better OBP and Slg %. Here are the number is comparison with the NL leaders: OBP 1. Albert .434 4. Lee .423 31. Jones .358 Slg% 1. Lee .674 2. Albert .633 3. Jones .601 BA 1. Lee .343 2. Pujols .338 40. Jones .275 I could see how voters could reward D. Lee for a great season or Albert for being so consistant on the best team in MLB (record wise). Yet, to give it to Jones is just absurd.

Maybe I am just drinking the Cardinal coolaid, but TLR had a meeting with his pitcher after he hit Mike Piazza in the head. The Mets did retailiate by hitting Eck in the thigh, and I do not think it was a bush move on the Mets part. Of course if they would have thrown at someone's head than that would be bush. Then LaRussa went over to talk to Piazza after the game about how the pitch was not on purpose. That is pure class on TLR's part. TLR stated that he does not believe that a MLB pitcher should hit a batter in the head. He believes that MLb pitchers should have good enough control to not miss in that area. I think Tony is a classier person than most fans realize.

This a very funny article and does put things into to perspective for a few minutes. Then again with the Cubs/Cards series coming up I thought I would recap what the finer points of the rivarly. Cub fans write: ***Insert Jim Edmonds makeup joke here*** Cardinal fans write: Cubby Blue is not an intimidating color choice for sure and is a little feminine. Chicago newspaper journalist (if you can call him that) writes: Busch stadium is terrible and every time Cardinal fans come to Wrigley they know what they are missing. (I assume he is talking about the falling debris from the staduim's upper decks) Cardinal fan writes: We all know the Cardinal fans are the most intelligent fan base in all of baseball. (even if it is only a self proclaimed title) :lol: Cubs fan writes: Cardinal fans are inbreed hicks that bring cowbells to ball games. Cubs fan writes: I do have to say that the female's at Wrigley are very fine, but then again it is a bar and I am usually drunk and the lighting is not the greatest. Cardinal fan writes: Ahhh, 1908 (insensitive Cardinal fan remark) TruffleShuffle remarks: Carpenter, Nunez, So, and all the Cardinal players are playing far above their career norms. Cardinal fans write: One last thought: Our first basemen is better than your first basemen. (The new favorite argument of Cardinal fans everywhere)

TruffleShuffle wrote: HA! I cannot believe that you are actually conceding that Carpenter is a Cy Young type pitcher in any league based on talent. Usually you chalk up Carp's numbers to the luck of being a Cardinal. Moreover, I personally think Carp will come close to getting all the votes now that Clemens is showing his age and weaknesses.

He sure as sh!! does not look like he is washed up. He will get a nice contract again next year (might not be the Cubs). Someone will be willing to take him because the payoff could be very nice.

Cub fans every where would hate the day that the Pirates actually became a major league team. That would mean less talented Cub teams and no more robbing your AAA Pirates of their talented players. I just hope that the Pirates get more for Zack Duke than they did for ARam. :oops:

This is a post from the Post Dispatch. Many poster on that site are irritated by ESPN's handling of the MVP. Most of there talking heads (ESPN) are saying that AJ is the leagues MVP. Looking at the numbers, I have a hard time believing that anyone besides Albert or Lee get the award. Jones has a very low batting average and average with RISP, yet he may benefit from the exposure of a closer race in his division.

I cannot answer your question, but I saw a stat that had the number of RBI chances for D. Lee, Pujols, and AJ. Jones had far more opportunities than both Lee and Albert. Albert only had about 6 or 8 more ABs with RISP than D. Lee. I have been unable to find it. Does anyone have this stat?

ITB wrote: :lol: i didn't even read your post after this, and i don't plan to. how hard is it to get the name right? ITB, I am sorry I hope you forgive me. :roll:

What is all the rest of Clemens' numbers were not better? Clemens has more walks, less K's, less CGs and less innings. Hell he only has one complete game. He is almost averaging an inning less per start than Carpenter.

Clemens only has an opportunity for 5 more starts. Thus he could end up with no more than 16 wins. Carpenter could end up with probably no more than 24-25. If Clemens wins less than two of his final starts he would be the first Cy Young pitcher since 1981 to not win 15 games. Fernando Valenzuala won only 13 in 1981, but there was no one with more than 14 wins in the NL. I understand that there are better stats for individual performance than wins, but at what point do you need to just win games. Would you really give the award to a pitcher because he has a low ERA? If Clemens fails to gain another win and Carpenter doubles him up in wins do you still feel he is deserving of the Cy?

Show me the stats that make Clemens more deserving than RJ? He was clearly not the best pitcher based on stats other than wins. Now Clemens is on the other side of the argument and you think he deserves the award again. Come on there has to be a little common sense used here. And no I am not looking up or referring to your or anyone's post from a year ago. Roger's stats last year: 18-4 ERA 2.98 K's 218 214 innings 1.16 whip RJ's stats last year: 16-14 ERA 2.60 K's 290 245 innings .90 whip