gottlieb is one of espn's best commentator's when he's talking about the Big XII, his specialty, but I'm not sure about the rest of his CBB knowledge. That's great Kruger is from KState a Big 12 school maybe Doug should have researched a bit before his annointed Bill Self basketball coach jesus. The guy has always done a nice job of following good coaches and building off of what they have done. Tubby, Lon, and Roy are all good coaches who set up his programs and then he ran with it. He did build ORU from the ashes. And while he did come into talent at UI, he also left them with a ton of talent. Weber did a phenomenal job in '05, but you guys don't go to the championship game if Self hadn't brought in so many of those players. The weirdest thing is that, aside from ORU, Self's biggest "rebuilding" job has probably been at KU. We had a lot of mediocre talent due to Roy's every-other-year recruiting style while he was at Kansas. Simien was very good offensively, Langford was good until his knees went, and Miles could distribute and D up. After that, we were essentially stocked w/ role players, especially after Padgett transferred. Come on now. Simien and Miles were great. Miles a MCDAA. Langford was good. He also had Giddens another burger boy. Also Padgett was a burger boy. In other words more talent than Weber had at Illinois. i will concede ORU to you he did a nice job there. But, still Gottlieb called him a savior of Illinois program and that is just wrong and offensive to a fan of Lon Kruger. Miles was good at what he did, distribute and play d. But roy didn't leave us w/ any players to distribute to. Langford was prolly the most talented until he blew his knees out. By senior year, he just wasn't explosive. Watching him fr/so year was a thiing to behold, though. I forgot about Giddens. He coulda been something, but he didn't have his stuff together. I hope he keeps it up a UNM. I always liked him. And yes, padgett was good, but Padgett wanted to play for Roy, not Bill, and there were rumors about him transferring the second he stepped on campus. The fact is, we had NO depth when Self got here, especially when the post roy transfers happened. That's why we have so many fresh/sophs playing key roles this year. Roy left him little.