B.J. Ryan to Blue Jays

[Balsa]

:shock: :shock: :shock:

 

Wow. I'm don't know which part I'm more surprised about, that Ryan is getting such a huge contract or that it was the Blue Jays!

 

However, this deal makes more sense to me than the one that the Mets will probably offer to Wagner, as Ryan will come close, if not last out this contract, while Wagner certainly won't.

[Derwood]

I am glad the Cubs were in no way part of a deal for Ryan. That contract is plain lunacy

[DougDascenzo]

u htink that one is bad

 

wait til were paying 40 million a year for furcal and soriano

 

of course lets all pray that thread is bogus

[Illini Iceman]

I do not believe that - I guess they are out of the Burnett race. My God.

 

Well, I guess they had to pay more b/c it is Toronto. I think they had $30M to spend this offseason. Giles and Burnett are still possibilities.

 

It's only $9.4M per year. :lol: The years is what surprised me, although he is a very good pitcher. I'd rather have him at 47M/5 than eyre and howry at a combined 23M/3 (7.67M/year), but that dream is gone.

 

You're insane and you owe me for trashing my support on Eyre and Howry's deals.

 

It seems likely that Hendry saw that deals like this were on the horizon and that is the reason he moved quickly on Eyre and Howry at slightly higher money and years than most here anticipated. I can't help but think that the Ryan and Wagner (if it goes down as reported) deals will drive up the cost of the remaining relievers on the market. Assuming Hendry really looked at the bullpen as a main priority this offseason he must have felt he had to do what he could to lock these two guys up so he did not wind up starting next season with no improvement to the pen.

[RynoRules]

 

So how are the Jays supposed to close the gap with the BoSox and the Yankees? [b[Go ahead. Take a stab. You're all criticisms and no solutions on this subject[/b].

 

Wow. Take a pill, pal. I just posted my solution - follow the Oakland and Minni models.

 

But since I don't feel like arguing about this any longer, I'll drop it.

 

whatever. don't bother whining about my criticisms of Hendry if you're going to have weak arguments for bashing another team's GM.

 

No prob. And thanks for ignoring my arguments in order to bolster your own. I hope you feel special now.

[CubinNY]

It seems likely that Hendry saw that deals like this were on the horizon and that is the reason he moved quickly on Eyre and Howry at slightly higher money and years than most here anticipated.

 

It's more likely that Hendry help set the market by giving ridiculus money and years to two mediocre middle relievers.

 

There was a quote from one agent suggesting as much.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I do not believe that - I guess they are out of the Burnett race. My God.

 

Well, I guess they had to pay more b/c it is Toronto. I think they had $30M to spend this offseason. Giles and Burnett are still possibilities.

 

It's only $9.4M per year. :lol: The years is what surprised me, although he is a very good pitcher. I'd rather have him at 47M/5 than eyre and howry at a combined 23M/3 (7.67M/year), but that dream is gone.

 

You're insane and you owe me for trashing my support on Eyre and Howry's deals.

 

Why? The Eyre and Howry deals are still garbage. Look at how each pitcher's numbers have trended (i posted a link a few posts back). Eyre and Howry are both pretty good bets to have awful years in the next 3 seasons (howry less so) and Ryan is a good bet to put up numbers at or better than 2005 for 4-5 years.

 

Giving 7.7M/year to two relievers with significant medical history is ok, but giving 9.4M/year to a healthy dominant relief pitcher is insane?

 

Both Eyre and Ryan received little over 300% raises over their last year's salaries. Howry received little over a 200% raise. All three of these guys are making comparitively the same amounts percentage wise over their previous season's market value (well, BJ Ryan received less than market value as he avoided arbitration but was still underpaid).

 

Not to mention the BJ Ryan signing makes Batista expendable (who makes 4.75M next year). Who did Eyre and Howry push off the team? Guys making the league minimum.

Edited November 26, 2005 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[RynoRules]

I am glad the Cubs were in no way part of a deal for Ryan. That contract is plain lunacy

 

What he said.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

 

So how are the Jays supposed to close the gap with the BoSox and the Yankees? [b[Go ahead. Take a stab. You're all criticisms and no solutions on this subject[/b].

 

Wow. Take a pill, pal. I just posted my solution - follow the Oakland and Minni models.

 

But since I don't feel like arguing about this any longer, I'll drop it.

 

whatever. don't bother whining about my criticisms of Hendry if you're going to have weak arguments for bashing another team's GM.

 

No prob. And thanks for ignoring my arguments in order to bolster your own. I hope you feel special now.

 

I'm sorry, was that an actual argument? Use the Twins/A's approach? Have you even looked at those teams contracts? They have some horrible ones on the books.

 

$60M/6 for Jason Kendall

Torri Hunter at $22.75M over the next two seasons.

 

I found your argument laughable, considering I had already commented on those same issues in this thread. You didn't even qualify your remarks. You just threw out some general statement and didn't back it up with anything resembling fact (which is supposedly what you were responding to anyways).

[Derwood]

Why? The Eyre and Howry deals are still garbage. Look at how each pitcher's numbers have trended (i posted a link a few posts back). Eyre and Howry are both pretty good bets to have awful years in the next 3 seasons (howry less so) and Ryan is a good bet to put up numbers at or better than 2005 for 4-5 years.

 

Giving 7.7M/year to two relievers with significant medical history is ok, but giving 9.4M/year to a healthy dominant relief pitcher is insane?

 

Both Eyre and Ryan received little over 300% raises over their last year's salaries. Howry received little over a 200% raise. All three of these guys are making comparitively the same amounts percentage wise over their previous season's market value (well, BJ Ryan received less than market value as he avoided arbitration but was still underpaid).

 

Not to mention the BJ Ryan signing makes Batista expendable (who makes 4.75M next year). Who did Eyre and Howry push off the team? Guys making the league minimum.

 

I want your crystal ball. You're basically guaranteeing that Howry/Eyre will suck in the near future while Ryan will absolutely improve on his stats. The Cubs should hire you right away with such unbelievable skills of prognostication

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Why? The Eyre and Howry deals are still garbage. Look at how each pitcher's numbers have trended (i posted a link a few posts back). Eyre and Howry are both pretty good bets to have awful years in the next 3 seasons (howry less so) and Ryan is a good bet to put up numbers at or better than 2005 for 4-5 years.

 

Giving 7.7M/year to two relievers with significant medical history is ok, but giving 9.4M/year to a healthy dominant relief pitcher is insane?

 

Both Eyre and Ryan received little over 300% raises over their last year's salaries. Howry received little over a 200% raise. All three of these guys are making comparitively the same amounts percentage wise over their previous season's market value (well, BJ Ryan received less than market value as he avoided arbitration but was still underpaid).

 

Not to mention the BJ Ryan signing makes Batista expendable (who makes 4.75M next year). Who did Eyre and Howry push off the team? Guys making the league minimum.

 

I want your crystal ball. You're basically guaranteeing that Howry/Eyre will suck in the near future while Ryan will absolutely improve on his stats. The Cubs should hire you right away with such unbelievable skills of prognostication

 

It's no mystery. Look at the up and down natures of Howry/Eyre over their careers and the short term improvement they've experienced at an older age. What's your projection for the future? Yeah, they'll both put up 2005 numbers for the life of their contracts.

 

Look at how the blankety blanking numbers trend for Pete's sake (i gave a link earlier in the thread). This is a fundamental concept in business/science/engineering. Please have some evidence to support your POV instead of blind opinion while calling my opinion looking in a "crystal ball" when I have given justification for my stance.

[Derwood]

Why? The Eyre and Howry deals are still garbage. Look at how each pitcher's numbers have trended (i posted a link a few posts back). Eyre and Howry are both pretty good bets to have awful years in the next 3 seasons (howry less so) and Ryan is a good bet to put up numbers at or better than 2005 for 4-5 years.

 

Giving 7.7M/year to two relievers with significant medical history is ok, but giving 9.4M/year to a healthy dominant relief pitcher is insane?

 

Both Eyre and Ryan received little over 300% raises over their last year's salaries. Howry received little over a 200% raise. All three of these guys are making comparitively the same amounts percentage wise over their previous season's market value (well, BJ Ryan received less than market value as he avoided arbitration but was still underpaid).

 

Not to mention the BJ Ryan signing makes Batista expendable (who makes 4.75M next year). Who did Eyre and Howry push off the team? Guys making the league minimum.

 

I want your crystal ball. You're basically guaranteeing that Howry/Eyre will suck in the near future while Ryan will absolutely improve on his stats. The Cubs should hire you right away with such unbelievable skills of prognostication

 

It's no mystery. Look at the up and down natures of Howry/Eyre over their careers and the short term improvement they've experienced at an older age. What's your projection for the future? Yeah, they'll both put up 2005 numbers for the life of their contracts.

 

Look at how the blankety blanking numbers trend for Pete's sake (i gave a link earlier in the thread). This is a fundamental concept in business/science/engineering. Please have some evidence to support your POV instead of blind opinion while calling my opinion looking in a "crystal ball" when I have given justification for my stance.

 

I'm just not in the business of trying to predict what players will/won't do. I'm not going to praise or condemn these moves until we see some actual stats in Cubbie uniforms from these two.

[USSoccer]

That is an insane contract for a reliever. If Toronto wanted to overpay, why didn't they overpay for a SP or a position player?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

That is an insane contract for a reliever. If Toronto wanted to overpay, why didn't they overpay for a SP or a position player?

 

If everyone is overpaying. Therefore no one is overpaying.

[USSoccer]

That is an insane contract for a reliever. If Toronto wanted to overpay, why didn't they overpay for a SP or a position player?

 

If everyone is overpaying. Therefore no one is overpaying.

 

Good point. Remember last season when everyone thoguht the market woudl settle since there was so much talent out there, and then some idiot gave Christian Guzman about 10x what he was worth, and that set it off again?

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Why? The Eyre and Howry deals are still garbage. Look at how each pitcher's numbers have trended (i posted a link a few posts back). Eyre and Howry are both pretty good bets to have awful years in the next 3 seasons (howry less so) and Ryan is a good bet to put up numbers at or better than 2005 for 4-5 years.

 

Giving 7.7M/year to two relievers with significant medical history is ok, but giving 9.4M/year to a healthy dominant relief pitcher is insane?

 

Both Eyre and Ryan received little over 300% raises over their last year's salaries. Howry received little over a 200% raise. All three of these guys are making comparitively the same amounts percentage wise over their previous season's market value (well, BJ Ryan received less than market value as he avoided arbitration but was still underpaid).

 

Not to mention the BJ Ryan signing makes Batista expendable (who makes 4.75M next year). Who did Eyre and Howry push off the team? Guys making the league minimum.

 

I want your crystal ball. You're basically guaranteeing that Howry/Eyre will suck in the near future while Ryan will absolutely improve on his stats. The Cubs should hire you right away with such unbelievable skills of prognostication

I call it: ultra pessimism

[CuseCubFan69]

That is an insane contract for a reliever. If Toronto wanted to overpay, why didn't they overpay for a SP or a position player?

 

My cyber money says the Jays are just starting to put together their 2006 team. Yes, they overspent but IMO I think they have another trade/signing in the works.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It doesn't take a crystal ball to look at the numbers of Howry, Eyre, and Ryan, and come to the conclusion that Ryan is a safer bet to repeat his numbers from the past few seasons.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

It doesn't take a crystal ball to look at the numbers of Howry, Eyre, and Ryan, and come to the conclusion that Ryan is a safer bet to repeat his numbers from the past few seasons.

@ 2-3 times the cost.

FYI, Neither Ryan nor Wagner were ever options for the Cubs since the day the Cubs signed Dempster to an extension.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It doesn't take a crystal ball to look at the numbers of Howry, Eyre, and Ryan, and come to the conclusion that Ryan is a safer bet to repeat his numbers from the past few seasons.

@ 2-3 times the cost.

FYI, Neither Ryan nor Wagner were ever options for the Cubs since the day the Cubs signed Dempster to an extension.

 

He's also several years younger and his numbers are much better, hence the higher cost. You're probably right on the second point, which shows a lack of imagination on Hendry's part.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

It doesn't take a crystal ball to look at the numbers of Howry, Eyre, and Ryan, and come to the conclusion that Ryan is a safer bet to repeat his numbers from the past few seasons.

@ 2-3 times the cost.

FYI, Neither Ryan nor Wagner were ever options for the Cubs since the day the Cubs signed Dempster to an extension.

 

He's also several years younger and his numbers are much better, hence the higher cost. You're probably right on the second point, which shows a lack of imagination on Hendry's part.

Would you rather have Ryan @ 5 yrs. 47 mil or Dempster @ 3/ 15.5?

Both were in their 1st year as closers.

 

FYI, Ryan is 29 & Dempster is 28

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It doesn't take a crystal ball to look at the numbers of Howry, Eyre, and Ryan, and come to the conclusion that Ryan is a safer bet to repeat his numbers from the past few seasons.

@ 2-3 times the cost.

FYI, Neither Ryan nor Wagner were ever options for the Cubs since the day the Cubs signed Dempster to an extension.

 

He's also several years younger and his numbers are much better, hence the higher cost. You're probably right on the second point, which shows a lack of imagination on Hendry's part.

Would you rather have Ryan @ 5 yrs. 47 mil or Dempster @ 3/ 15.5?

Both were in their 1st year as closers.

 

FYI, Ryan is 29 & Dempster is 28

 

It's not an either/or decision.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

It doesn't take a crystal ball to look at the numbers of Howry, Eyre, and Ryan, and come to the conclusion that Ryan is a safer bet to repeat his numbers from the past few seasons.

@ 2-3 times the cost.

FYI, Neither Ryan nor Wagner were ever options for the Cubs since the day the Cubs signed Dempster to an extension.

 

He's also several years younger and his numbers are much better, hence the higher cost. You're probably right on the second point, which shows a lack of imagination on Hendry's part.

Would you rather have Ryan @ 5 yrs. 47 mil or Dempster @ 3/ 15.5?

Both were in their 1st year as closers.

 

FYI, Ryan is 29 & Dempster is 28

 

It's not an either/or decision.

explain

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It doesn't take a crystal ball to look at the numbers of Howry, Eyre, and Ryan, and come to the conclusion that Ryan is a safer bet to repeat his numbers from the past few seasons.

@ 2-3 times the cost.

FYI, Neither Ryan nor Wagner were ever options for the Cubs since the day the Cubs signed Dempster to an extension.

 

He's also several years younger and his numbers are much better, hence the higher cost. You're probably right on the second point, which shows a lack of imagination on Hendry's part.

Would you rather have Ryan @ 5 yrs. 47 mil or Dempster @ 3/ 15.5?

Both were in their 1st year as closers.

 

FYI, Ryan is 29 & Dempster is 28

 

It's not an either/or decision.

explain

 

You get both. Signing Ryan doesn't mean you have to get rid of Dempster, and having Dempster doesn't mean you can't go after Ryan. It's a moot point now with Ryan signed to a huge contract.

[RynoRules]

I'm just not in the business of trying to predict what players will/won't do. I'm not going to praise or condemn these moves until we see some actual stats in Cubbie uniforms from these two.

 

=D>