Hendry on channel 9 WGN shortly.

[fromthestretch]

I don't know if I would say that Novoa is completely unreliable. He was shaky at times, but I think he could turn out to be a decent reliever.

 

What other word could you use to describe him? He's got good stuff, and at times could have a great outing. But overall he sucked. His WHIP was 1.6. That's the very definition of reliable. If he was reliable, you would be willing to bet pretty good money that he'd put up a solid line next season, and I would be willing to bet there aren't many people willing to do that. He's unreliable. You have no idea what he'll give you next year, or on a day-to-day basis.

 

Inconsistent would be a better word.

 

I'm not ready to hand him the closer's role or anything. But considering his stuff, his age, and his low pricetag, I have no problem with him in the bullpen. He certainly doesn't have to be the first, second, or even third person used.

 

Let's face it, with Dusty managing, this team is probably going to carry 12 pitchers for at least a few months of the season. I'd rather him be the 11th or 12th man, than someone making $3 million+ a year who isn't guaranteed to perform much better than Novoa.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't know if I would say that Novoa is completely unreliable. He was shaky at times, but I think he could turn out to be a decent reliever.

 

What other word could you use to describe him? He's got good stuff, and at times could have a great outing. But overall he sucked. His WHIP was 1.6. That's the very definition of reliable. If he was reliable, you would be willing to bet pretty good money that he'd put up a solid line next season, and I would be willing to bet there aren't many people willing to do that. He's unreliable. You have no idea what he'll give you next year, or on a day-to-day basis.

 

Inconsistent would be a better word.

 

I'm not ready to hand him the closer's role or anything. But considering his stuff, his age, and his low pricetag, I have no problem with him in the bullpen. He certainly doesn't have to be the first, second, or even third person used.

 

Let's face it, with Dusty managing, this team is probably going to carry 12 pitchers for at least a few months of the season. I'd rather him be the 11th or 12th man, than someone making $3 million+ a year who isn't guaranteed to perform much better than Novoa.

 

I don't see how anything you wrote refutes the statement that Novoa is unreliable.

[fromthestretch]

I don't know if I would say that Novoa is completely unreliable. He was shaky at times, but I think he could turn out to be a decent reliever.

 

What other word could you use to describe him? He's got good stuff, and at times could have a great outing. But overall he sucked. His WHIP was 1.6. That's the very definition of reliable. If he was reliable, you would be willing to bet pretty good money that he'd put up a solid line next season, and I would be willing to bet there aren't many people willing to do that. He's unreliable. You have no idea what he'll give you next year, or on a day-to-day basis.

 

Inconsistent would be a better word.

 

I'm not ready to hand him the closer's role or anything. But considering his stuff, his age, and his low pricetag, I have no problem with him in the bullpen. He certainly doesn't have to be the first, second, or even third person used.

 

Let's face it, with Dusty managing, this team is probably going to carry 12 pitchers for at least a few months of the season. I'd rather him be the 11th or 12th man, than someone making $3 million+ a year who isn't guaranteed to perform much better than Novoa.

 

I don't see how anything you wrote refutes the statement that Novoa is unreliable.

 

Is he unreliable or completely unreliable as you initially stated? Just curious, because to me there is a difference. Farnsworth was unreliable. He was capable of being great, and he was capable of being downright awful. Felix Heredia was completely unreliable. Although I guess if you were relying on him to be awful, then you could view him as reliable.

 

Novoa strung together some good outings last season. He needs to cut back on the walks a bit. I'm optimistic he can do that after looking at his walk rates in the minors.

[Diffusion]

Dear Goony,

 

Let me please get this straight...

 

Our bullpen must be filled from top to bottom, no exceptions, with guys that are completely reliable (read consistently good), which is why Roberto Novoa and Jermaine Van Buren miss the cut, requiring us to throw huge sums of money at reliable (read consistently good, or maybe just good once or twice) Dempster and Eyre etc?

 

Puzzled,

Diffusion

[goonys evil twin]

Is he unreliable or completely unreliable as you initially stated? Just curious, because to me there is a difference. Farnsworth was unreliable. He was capable of being great, and he was capable of being downright awful. Felix Heredia was completely unreliable. Although I guess if you were relying on him to be awful, then you could view him as reliable.

 

Novoa strung together some good outings last season. He needs to cut back on the walks a bit. I'm optimistic he can do that after looking at his walk rates in the minors.

 

Farnsworth has strung together some good seasons, that's a lot different than Novoa stringing together some good outings. He walks far too many, and doesn't strike out enough to make up for it. He's completely unreliable. That doesn't mean he's completely incapable of doing something good, but you'd be nuts to pencil him into the bullpen with any sort of expectation for solid performance.

[Diffusion]

Is he unreliable or completely unreliable as you initially stated? Just curious, because to me there is a difference. Farnsworth was unreliable. He was capable of being great, and he was capable of being downright awful. Felix Heredia was completely unreliable. Although I guess if you were relying on him to be awful, then you could view him as reliable.

 

Novoa strung together some good outings last season. He needs to cut back on the walks a bit. I'm optimistic he can do that after looking at his walk rates in the minors.

 

Farnsworth has strung together some good seasons, that's a lot different than Novoa stringing together some good outings. He walks far too many, and doesn't strike out enough to make up for it. He's completely unreliable. That doesn't mean he's completely incapable of doing something good, but you'd be nuts to pencil him into the bullpen with any sort of expectation for solid performance.

 

Consider me nuts.

[sethuel1]

I don't know if I would say that Novoa is completely unreliable. He was shaky at times, but I think he could turn out to be a decent reliever.

 

What other word could you use to describe him? He's got good stuff, and at times could have a great outing. But overall he sucked. His WHIP was 1.6. That's the very definition of reliable. If he was reliable, you would be willing to bet pretty good money that he'd put up a solid line next season, and I would be willing to bet there aren't many people willing to do that. He's unreliable. You have no idea what he'll give you next year, or on a day-to-day basis.

 

Inconsistent would be a better word.

 

I'm not ready to hand him the closer's role or anything. But considering his stuff, his age, and his low pricetag, I have no problem with him in the bullpen. He certainly doesn't have to be the first, second, or even third person used.

 

Let's face it, with Dusty managing, this team is probably going to carry 12 pitchers for at least a few months of the season. I'd rather him be the 11th or 12th man, than someone making $3 million+ a year who isn't guaranteed to perform much better than Novoa.

 

I don't see how anything you wrote refutes the statement that Novoa is unreliable.

 

Is he unreliable or completely unreliable as you initially stated? Just curious, because to me there is a difference. Farnsworth was unreliable. He was capable of being great, and he was capable of being downright awful. Felix Heredia was completely unreliable. Although I guess if you were relying on him to be awful, then you could view him as reliable.

 

Novoa strung together some good outings last season. He needs to cut back on the walks a bit. I'm optimistic he can do that after looking at his walk rates in the minors.

There is no way you can say Farnsworth was unreliable and Novoa was not.

[Diffusion]

I don't know if I would say that Novoa is completely unreliable. He was shaky at times, but I think he could turn out to be a decent reliever.

 

What other word could you use to describe him? He's got good stuff, and at times could have a great outing. But overall he sucked. His WHIP was 1.6. That's the very definition of reliable. If he was reliable, you would be willing to bet pretty good money that he'd put up a solid line next season, and I would be willing to bet there aren't many people willing to do that. He's unreliable. You have no idea what he'll give you next year, or on a day-to-day basis.

 

Inconsistent would be a better word.

 

I'm not ready to hand him the closer's role or anything. But considering his stuff, his age, and his low pricetag, I have no problem with him in the bullpen. He certainly doesn't have to be the first, second, or even third person used.

 

Let's face it, with Dusty managing, this team is probably going to carry 12 pitchers for at least a few months of the season. I'd rather him be the 11th or 12th man, than someone making $3 million+ a year who isn't guaranteed to perform much better than Novoa.

 

I don't see how anything you wrote refutes the statement that Novoa is unreliable.

 

Is he unreliable or completely unreliable as you initially stated? Just curious, because to me there is a difference. Farnsworth was unreliable. He was capable of being great, and he was capable of being downright awful. Felix Heredia was completely unreliable. Although I guess if you were relying on him to be awful, then you could view him as reliable.

 

Novoa strung together some good outings last season. He needs to cut back on the walks a bit. I'm optimistic he can do that after looking at his walk rates in the minors.

There is no way you can say Farnsworth was unreliable and Novoa was not.

 

There is a way you can say Novoa possesses absolutely filthy stuff, has no history of control problems and ought to improve as he becomes acclimatised to the major leagues.

[sethuel1]

There is a way you can say Novoa possesses absolutely filthy stuff, has no history of control problems and ought to improve as he becomes acclimatised to the major leagues.

 

Now that i agree with, but to say that he hasn't been unreliable...not really true. And to say that he's been reliable while Farnsworth was not is not an arguable point.

[goonys evil twin]

There is a way you can say Novoa possesses absolutely filthy stuff, has no history of control problems and ought to improve as he becomes acclimatised to the major leagues.

 

He's also got no history of great results. Why are people taking offense to calling this guy unreliable? He is unreliable. Practically every player who has never had success in the majors would be considered unreliable. I wouldn't call Rich Hill reliable, but I'd much rather see him in Rusch's spot than Glendon himself. If the Cubs bullpen had 3-4 really solid guys with a nice history of pitching well in the job, then a guy like Novoa would be an excellent option. But don't tell me you're going to focus heavily on the bullpen, then plan on going into the season with a bunch of guys who all have serious questions, and then add a collection of marginal arms for the backend to fill-in. I've got no problem taking risks with the bullpen. If you can't get a Rivera/Gordon combo, or find a way to add Wagner or Ryan, that's fine, it costs a lot to do that. But you better damn well find yourself an absolutely dominant offense if you're going to take that chance.

[YearofDaCubs]

Novoa going into next season is unreliable. I have to side with Goony on this one. Novoa showed some flashes of being good and at the same time had some pretty bad outings. Let's put it this way..if he was our 7th or 8th inning man I would be worried.

[fromthestretch]

I don't know if I would say that Novoa is completely unreliable. He was shaky at times, but I think he could turn out to be a decent reliever.

 

What other word could you use to describe him? He's got good stuff, and at times could have a great outing. But overall he sucked. His WHIP was 1.6. That's the very definition of reliable. If he was reliable, you would be willing to bet pretty good money that he'd put up a solid line next season, and I would be willing to bet there aren't many people willing to do that. He's unreliable. You have no idea what he'll give you next year, or on a day-to-day basis.

 

Inconsistent would be a better word.

 

I'm not ready to hand him the closer's role or anything. But considering his stuff, his age, and his low pricetag, I have no problem with him in the bullpen. He certainly doesn't have to be the first, second, or even third person used.

 

Let's face it, with Dusty managing, this team is probably going to carry 12 pitchers for at least a few months of the season. I'd rather him be the 11th or 12th man, than someone making $3 million+ a year who isn't guaranteed to perform much better than Novoa.

 

I don't see how anything you wrote refutes the statement that Novoa is unreliable.

 

Is he unreliable or completely unreliable as you initially stated? Just curious, because to me there is a difference. Farnsworth was unreliable. He was capable of being great, and he was capable of being downright awful. Felix Heredia was completely unreliable. Although I guess if you were relying on him to be awful, then you could view him as reliable.

 

Novoa strung together some good outings last season. He needs to cut back on the walks a bit. I'm optimistic he can do that after looking at his walk rates in the minors.

There is no way you can say Farnsworth was unreliable and Novoa was not.

 

Read my posts. As I said, to me there's a difference between unreliable and completely unreliable. Regardless, Novoa shouldn't be counted on at this stage to get the big outs. There's no need to use him as the 8th inning guy in a one-run game. Use him like the Cubs used Borowski in 2002 or Van Poppel the year before (and no, I'm not claiming that he'll match their numbers). But considering cost, age, and potential, you could do a lot worse for your 11th or 12th man in the bullpen.

 

Last year, Novoa wasn't as bad as Farnsworth was in his bad years. At the same time, he wasn't as good as Farnsworth was in his good years. You didn't know which Farnsworth you were going to get from year to year. (NOTE: I was not happy when Farnsworth was dealt.)

 

Let's ask these questions:

 

Would you be entirely upset if Novoa was the Cubs 11th/12th man in the bullpen for less than $500,000?

 

Or would you prefer the Cubs go out and continue to throw $3-4 million at relievers who aren't guaranteed to be much better, when the money could be better used to help the offense?

 

Or would you rather have Welly, Mitre, or Bartosh who have been much worse than Novoa?

[goonys evil twin]

Let's ask these questions:

 

Would you be entirely upset if Novoa was the Cubs 11th/12th man in the bullpen for less than $500,000?

 

Or would you prefer the Cubs go out and continue to throw $3-4 million at relievers who aren't guaranteed to be much better, when the money could be better used to help the offense?

 

Or would you rather have Welly, Mitre, or Bartosh who have been much worse than Novoa?

 

I think you're missing my point in calling him unreliable.

 

I have no problem with him as the 11th pitcher (I would have a problem with him as the 12th pitcher, as it would be incredibly stupid to once again hamstring your offense just so you can keep a guy in the bullpen who will work once every 2 weeks).

 

But the guy is unreliable. It's not a year-to-year thing with him, he's never had a good year in the majors. The bullpen, as it stands, is very far from a lockdown bullpen. Hendry is taking a risk if he keeps it as is, even if he adds another arm similar to the ones he has. But I'm fine with that risk, if, and only if, you go into the season with a great lineup. The White Sox bullpen turned out great last year, but it was "pull it out of your butt" great. You can't plan that sort of perfect timing of career years.

 

I'm fine with Novoa as the 11th pitcher. I wouldn't be all that ecstatic about the state of the bullpen, but as long as the starters (offense and pitching) are solid, I'll take my chances.

[fromthestretch]

Novoa going into next season is unreliable. I have to side with Goony on this one. Novoa showed some flashes of being good and at the same time had some pretty bad outings. Let's put it this way..if he was our 7th or 8th inning man I would be worried.

 

As would I. But who says he has to have that role?

 

You know Dusty will want 12 pitchers. Why can't Novoa be the 12th?

 

If JVB beats him out for the role, I certainly won't be upset. But I think Novoa is a much better option than Wellemeyer, Koronka, Mitre, and Bartosh.

 

Let's face it, even the Angels, who a lot of people say had a good bullpen, had guys like Esteban Yan and Kevin Gregg pitch over 60 innings in relief. The Astros had Russ Springer. The White Sox are one of the few teams that got good seasons from all their regular relievers, and that's not exactly common.

[JeffH]

I like Novoa - he was intermittently impressive last season, but I'd like him to either be at Iowa as the 8th reliever or on another team in trade for a friggin' outfielder.

[YearofDaCubs]

Novoa going into next season is unreliable. I have to side with Goony on this one. Novoa showed some flashes of being good and at the same time had some pretty bad outings. Let's put it this way..if he was our 7th or 8th inning man I would be worried.

 

As would I. But who says he has to have that role?

 

You know Dusty will want 12 pitchers. Why can't Novoa be the 12th?

 

If JVB beats him out for the role, I certainly won't be upset. But I think Novoa is a much better option than Wellemeyer, Koronka, Mitre, and Bartosh.

 

Let's face it, even the Angels, who a lot of people say had a good bullpen, had guys like Esteban Yan and Kevin Gregg pitch over 60 innings in relief. The Astros had Russ Springer. The White Sox are one of the few teams that got good seasons from all their regular relievers, and that's not exactly common.

I think its just ridiculous that we will have a 12man pitching staff yet again. Also, to add I agree Novoa is a better option than those you have mentioned. Too badd welly cant figure it out. He could dominate with his stuff.

[fromthestretch]

There is a way you can say Novoa possesses absolutely filthy stuff, has no history of control problems and ought to improve as he becomes acclimatised to the major leagues.

 

Now that i agree with, but to say that he hasn't been unreliable...not really true. And to say that he's been reliable while Farnsworth was not is not an arguable point.

 

I don't believe I ever actually said he was reliable. I just said I didn't think he was completely unreliable.

 

Some seem to view it as black and white, whereas I'm seeing different degrees of reliability. Which is fine; we're all going to view things differently.

 

NO reliever is 100% reliable. But based on the options available and the current needs of the Cubs, I don't find Novoa's reliability or lack thereof to be that big of an issue at the moment. I think he has more upside than a lot of the other options the Cubs have in-house, and I think the potential for reward with him is greater than going out and blowing a chunk of money on relievers who aren't guaranteed to perform much better than he did last year.

[fromthestretch]

I think its just ridiculous that we will have a 12man pitching staff yet again. Also, to add I agree Novoa is a better option than those you have mentioned. Too badd welly cant figure it out. He could dominate with his stuff.

 

I agree 100% with that. Unfortunately, it appears to be the Cub way.

 

I'm just saying that since we are going to be stuck watching a team with a 12-man pitching staff, I think Novoa is plenty good enough to handle the 11th/12th spot.

[goonys evil twin]

Let's face it, even the Angels, who a lot of people say had a good bullpen, had guys like Esteban Yan and Kevin Gregg pitch over 60 innings in relief. The Astros had Russ Springer. The White Sox are one of the few teams that got good seasons from all their regular relievers, and that's not exactly common.

 

Perhaps that reflects more on the need for a manager to bite the bullett sometimes and give his backend guys work, so as to save the good guys from breaking down. Unfortunately I don't see it happening. Dusty will find his 2 or 3 guys, and run them into the ground by July, when he'll whine about needing more relievers.

[fromthestretch]

Let's face it, even the Angels, who a lot of people say had a good bullpen, had guys like Esteban Yan and Kevin Gregg pitch over 60 innings in relief. The Astros had Russ Springer. The White Sox are one of the few teams that got good seasons from all their regular relievers, and that's not exactly common.

 

Perhaps that reflects more on the need for a manager to bite the bullett sometimes and give his backend guys work, so as to save the good guys from breaking down. Unfortunately I don't see it happening. Dusty will find his 2 or 3 guys, and run them into the ground by July, when he'll whine about needing more relievers.

 

I agree with that. He loves to play the hot hand. If a reliever is throwing well, he won't hesitate to use him every chance he gets. The workload has to be balanced.

[YearofDaCubs]

Let's face it, even the Angels, who a lot of people say had a good bullpen, had guys like Esteban Yan and Kevin Gregg pitch over 60 innings in relief. The Astros had Russ Springer. The White Sox are one of the few teams that got good seasons from all their regular relievers, and that's not exactly common.

 

Perhaps that reflects more on the need for a manager to bite the bullett sometimes and give his backend guys work, so as to save the good guys from breaking down. Unfortunately I don't see it happening. Dusty will find his 2 or 3 guys, and run them into the ground by July, when he'll whine about needing more relievers.

 

I agree with that. He loves to play the hot hand. If a reliever is throwing well, he won't hesitate to use him every chance he gets. The workload has to be balanced.

I was trying to complile a list of pitchers who possibly have been affected by Baker's use/abuse of the pitching staff. You can make a case..

 

Prior

Wood

Nen

Fox

Livan

 

I fear to see who might be next on the list. I think Z might be next unfortunately.

[Diffusion]

There is a way you can say Novoa possesses absolutely filthy stuff, has no history of control problems and ought to improve as he becomes acclimatised to the major leagues.

 

Now that i agree with, but to say that he hasn't been unreliable...not really true. And to say that he's been reliable while Farnsworth was not is not an arguable point.

 

I can't argue with the fact that he has been unreliable, obviously. But to say that he "is unreliable", where what you're essentially getting at is that you think he'll be unreliable in the future, on the basis of nothing besides the fact he's been unreliable in the past, somewhat irks me. Is there no chance that he'll improve with experience? And are the chances of his filthy stuff prevailing non-existent? Are last year's walks necessarily the best indicator of the extent of his control? Goony seems to have to his conclusions, presumptuously.

 

If the Cubs bullpen had 3-4 really solid guys with a nice history of pitching well in the job, then a guy like Novoa would be an excellent option.

 

So, Novoa is an excellent option regardless. He's good excellent stuff, there's reason to believe his control problems are transitory, he'll cost you $316k. What you should be whining about is the fact that the Cubs have been giving out expensive contracts to relievers (Dempster, Eyre) that seemingly aren't these really solid guys and that don't have a nice history of pitching well in the job. It's only that that makes having yet another non-sure thing in the bullpen such as Novoa potentially a problem.

 

But don't tell me you're going to focus heavily on the bullpen, then plan on going into the season with a bunch of guys who all have serious questions, and then add a collection of marginal arms for the backend to fill-in. I've got no problem taking risks with the bullpen. If you can't get a Rivera/Gordon combo, or find a way to add Wagner or Ryan, that's fine, it costs a lot to do that. But you better damn well find yourself an absolutely dominant offense if you're going to take that chance.

 

I had damn well better then, and I damn well would be doing if I was in charge. Instead of wasting money on middling relievers. Right now we're looking at, at best, Barrett, Lee, Walker, Ramirez, Neifi, Murton, Corey and Hairston as our lineup next year. That's a whole lot less acceptable than the bullpen we were looking at before Eyre.

[fromthestretch]

Let's face it, even the Angels, who a lot of people say had a good bullpen, had guys like Esteban Yan and Kevin Gregg pitch over 60 innings in relief. The Astros had Russ Springer. The White Sox are one of the few teams that got good seasons from all their regular relievers, and that's not exactly common.

 

Perhaps that reflects more on the need for a manager to bite the bullett sometimes and give his backend guys work, so as to save the good guys from breaking down. Unfortunately I don't see it happening. Dusty will find his 2 or 3 guys, and run them into the ground by July, when he'll whine about needing more relievers.

 

I agree with that. He loves to play the hot hand. If a reliever is throwing well, he won't hesitate to use him every chance he gets. The workload has to be balanced.

I was trying to complile a list of pitchers who possibly have been affected by Baker's use/abuse of the pitching staff. You can make a case..

 

Prior

Wood

Nen

Fox

Livan

 

I fear to see who might be next on the list. I think Z might be next unfortunately.

 

We should start a pool.

 

As far as relievers, I'll guess Wuertz.

[goonys evil twin]

I can't argue with the fact that he has been unreliable, obviously. But to say that he "is unreliable", where what you're essentially getting at is that you think he'll be unreliable in the future, on the basis of nothing besides the fact he's been unreliable in the past, somewhat irks me. Is there no chance that he'll improve with experience? And are the chances of his filthy stuff prevailing non-existent? Are last year's walks necessarily the best indicator of the extent of his control? Goony seems to have to his conclusions, presumptuously.

 

I'm sorry, but the fault lies in your interpretations of my words. Novoa is unreliable. That does not at all assume that he will always be unreliable. What irks me is the fact that I've had to repeat my stance several times that I have no problem with having Novoa in the bullpen, and taking the risk of a less than steller relief corps. I've said Novoa has great stuff with the ability to be a great reliever. He's just shown nothing to do to make me confident that he will be. He's unreliable. He's the very definition of unreliable when discussing pitchers.

 

Why some people are so taken aback from such a simple, uncontroversial, completely dispassionate statement is baffling.

[fromthestretch]

I can't argue with the fact that he has been unreliable, obviously. But to say that he "is unreliable", where what you're essentially getting at is that you think he'll be unreliable in the future, on the basis of nothing besides the fact he's been unreliable in the past, somewhat irks me. Is there no chance that he'll improve with experience? And are the chances of his filthy stuff prevailing non-existent? Are last year's walks necessarily the best indicator of the extent of his control? Goony seems to have to his conclusions, presumptuously.

 

I'm sorry, but the fault lies in your interpretations of my words. Novoa is unreliable. That does not at all assume that he will always be unreliable. What irks me is the fact that I've had to repeat my stance several times that I have no problem with having Novoa in the bullpen, and taking the risk of a less than steller relief corps. I've said Novoa has great stuff with the ability to be a great reliever. He's just shown nothing to do to make me confident that he will be. He's unreliable. He's the very definition of unreliable when discussing pitchers.

 

Why some people are so taken aback from such a simple, uncontroversial, completely dispassionate statement is baffling.

 

Perhaps it's just a discussion. You gave your opinion, I gave mine, others gave theirs. I don't see how anyone has been right or wrong in this. Has living in NY made you bitter? I lived in NJ for three years and certainly came out angrier. :wink:

 

My biggest problem was you lumping him in with Welly, Mitre and Koronka who have been much worse. I also don't agree with your assessment of JVB. I think it's very difficult for anyone to give any kind of assessment of his reliability (good or bad) based on six major league innings.