11/13 Bears vs. 49ers

[Andy]

Can Orton run for 100 yards in a game? I think Vick is WAY overrated anyways...

 

I don't. When he plays the Falcons win. When he doesn't they lose. OK, maybe some people speak to highly of him, but he is a great QB, IMO.

Obviously you haven't watched many games with Schaub at the helm...

 

Actually I haven't. Has he played in many? I remember one last year that did not turn out too well.

He played against the Pats this year and played pretty well. Atlanta almost (and probably should have) won that game.

[Jon]

Anything more manly than getting into a fight at a BBQ held at an FBI shooting range?

ChicagoSports.com[/url]"]On the day Fred Miller returned to practice and the Bears circled the wagons, FBI headquarters in Washington assigned its Inspection Division to investigate the fight between Miller and Olin Kreutz on FBI property at a shooting range in North Chicago.

 

National FBI spokesman Richard Kolko said Wednesday that the request for assistance from the agency's internal affairs arm came from Robert Grant, special agent-in-charge of the Chicago office.

 

In Chicago, FBI spokesman Frank Bochte said that as the investigation continues there are no immediate plans to curtail organized "liaison" shoots like the one in which Bears players participated Nov. 7. The agency, however, is keeping its options open, he said.

......................

Bochte confirmed agents sometimes provide classroom instruction and demonstrate the use of high-powered weapons, including sniper rifles and machine guns. If guests are permitted to fire those weapons, it's only under strict supervision, he said.

 

Sources familiar with the incident said Kreutz and Miller were feuding before they arrived at the shooting range. After the shoot, during a barbecue at a recreational area on the facility, the two men exchanged heated words that escalated into blows.

 

Agents quickly stepped in to break the two huge men apart, sources said.

[goonys evil twin]

Ya can't win every game :wink: . I just think he is good because has proven that the team needs him in order to win. He has a decent arm but is just not your typical QB. Just because he doesn't fit the mold does not make him bad, IMO. I think he gets to much criticism.

 

I think he receives too much adulation. People have been saying for years that he'll reinvent the position. He won't. He is a very talented QB that can help your team win. But outside of the hype, I wouldn't even consider him pro bowl material let alone say he's on track to be a hall of famer. Far too many have simply annointed him as the next great one. In reality he's done very little. The defense down there has been the biggest reason for success. Right now I'd take him on the Bears in a heartbeat, because I don't have a lot of faith in the Bears QB's and think Vick could do a better job of managing the team, without losing games on his own. But I think Brees is better than him, and stands a very good chance of finishing his career as the better QB.

 

I think some people complain a bit too much about Vick, but for the most part what I hear is people echoing my sentiments, basically annoyance at all the early praise he's received without having really earned it. Or perhaps better explained as annoyance that many are still praising him after he's shown over and over that he's not great.

[adamb0719]

Ya can't win every game :wink: . I just think he is good because has proven that the team needs him in order to win. He has a decent arm but is just not your typical QB. Just because he doesn't fit the mold does not make him bad, IMO. I think he gets to much criticism.

 

I think he receives too much adulation. People have been saying for years that he'll reinvent the position. He won't. He is a very talented QB that can help your team win. But outside of the hype, I wouldn't even consider him pro bowl material let alone say he's on track to be a hall of famer. Far too many have simply annointed him as the next great one. In reality he's done very little. The defense down there has been the biggest reason for success. Right now I'd take him on the Bears in a heartbeat, because I don't have a lot of faith in the Bears QB's and think Vick could do a better job of managing the team, without losing games on his own. But I think Brees is better than him, and stands a very good chance of finishing his career as the better QB.

 

I think some people complain a bit too much about Vick, but for the most part what I hear is people echoing my sentiments, basically annoyance at all the early praise he's received without having really earned it. Or perhaps better explained as annoyance that many are still praising him after he's shown over and over that he's not great.

 

I agree with what you say, but the simple fact IMO is he wins games. He did not reinvent the position at all, nor will he. His arm is incredible (or at least it used to be) but he rarely uses it as he should. It don't think he has done as well as he can. There is no excuse for that. He is overconfident of his skills and it shows. But I think that since he has proved that he is a winner he should be given respect. He turned VT around (against a weak Big East) and he was expected to do the same with Atlanta. He hasn't done what everyone wanted him to do, but that does not make him bad. Maybe great is not the right word in terms of his skills, but he is an very, very good QB who gets criticized a lot, but keeps winning. I think by the end of his career he will have proven this.

 

If he had come into the league quietly and done what he is doing, without all the hype, does anyone think people would praise him a lot more than they do?

[goonys evil twin]

Maybe great is not the right word in terms of his skills, but he is an very, very good QB who gets criticized a lot, but keeps winning. I think by the end of his career he will have proven this.

 

If he had come into the league quietly and done what he is doing, without all the hype, does anyone think people would praise him a lot more than they do?

 

He is not very, very good. He's very, very talented, and a decent QB.

 

He hasn't done much, so without all the hype coming in, I don't think he'd receive much praise.

 

No one player wins the game. Vick gets credit for not hurting his team, and for helping them win. But he doesn't win on his own. And it's not like Atlanta has put together some ungodly record under his command either.

[Andy]

Ya can't win every game :wink: . I just think he is good because has proven that the team needs him in order to win. He has a decent arm but is just not your typical QB. Just because he doesn't fit the mold does not make him bad, IMO. I think he gets to much criticism.

 

I think he receives too much adulation. People have been saying for years that he'll reinvent the position. He won't. He is a very talented QB that can help your team win. But outside of the hype, I wouldn't even consider him pro bowl material let alone say he's on track to be a hall of famer. Far too many have simply annointed him as the next great one. In reality he's done very little. The defense down there has been the biggest reason for success. Right now I'd take him on the Bears in a heartbeat, because I don't have a lot of faith in the Bears QB's and think Vick could do a better job of managing the team, without losing games on his own. But I think Brees is better than him, and stands a very good chance of finishing his career as the better QB.

 

I think some people complain a bit too much about Vick, but for the most part what I hear is people echoing my sentiments, basically annoyance at all the early praise he's received without having really earned it. Or perhaps better explained as annoyance that many are still praising him after he's shown over and over that he's not great.

 

I agree with what you say, but the simple fact IMO is he wins games. He did not reinvent the position at all, nor will he. His arm is incredible (or at least it used to be) but he rarely uses it as he should. It don't think he has done as well as he can. There is no excuse for that. He is overconfident of his skills and it shows. But I think that since he has proved that he is a winner he should be given respect. He turned VT around (against a weak Big East) and he was expected to do the same with Atlanta. He hasn't done what everyone wanted him to do, but that does not make him bad. Maybe great is not the right word in terms of his skills, but he is an very, very good QB who gets criticized a lot, but keeps winning. I think by the end of his career he will have proven this.

 

If he had come into the league quietly and done what he is doing, without all the hype, does anyone think people would praise him a lot more than they do?

The Big East wasn't that bad at all in the Vick Era. Miami was on the way back up, Cuse was a good team, and WV and BC weren't bad either.

[Careless]

Maybe great is not the right word in terms of his skills, but he is an very, very good QB who gets criticized a lot, but keeps winning. I think by the end of his career he will have proven this.

 

If he had come into the league quietly and done what he is doing, without all the hype, does anyone think people would praise him a lot more than they do?

 

He is not very, very good. He's very, very talented, and a decent QB.

 

He hasn't done much, so without all the hype coming in, I don't think he'd receive much praise.

 

No one player wins the game. Vick gets credit for not hurting his team, and for helping them win. But he doesn't win on his own. And it's not like Atlanta has put together some ungodly record under his command either.

I agree with basically everything goony said. The falcons are pretty much the bears on turf with a better qb and a worse defense. If vick was a very very good qb, they'd be the best team in the nfc.

[adamb0719]

The Big East wasn't that bad at all in the Vick Era. Miami was on the way back up, Cuse was a good team, and WV and BC weren't bad either.

 

Vick only played two years (99-00). In those two years Miami was the only team ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year. The teams you mentioned had a record over those two years of 13-10; 11-12; 15-9; respectively (excluding Miami). BC is the only BE team from that time that could be considered good. And look at the rest of the BE- Temple, Rutgers, Pitt. Not a very good conference IMO.