Why bother with call-ups?

[brinoch]

I agree that you don't roll over and let everyone beat you. However, as an organization, your goal is to win a World Series and you owe it to your fans and the organization as a whole to keep that in mind. If you are out of contention for a particular year then you need to begin re-tooling for the next year. And a part of that re-tooling is to see if a young guy is going to make it. This time of year is a good time to evaluate them. Otherwise, when do you do it? Seriously, that's an important question. We might have known that Dubois wasn't going to make had he received more time last season. We'd have a better idea what Cedeno and Murton will give us next season -- if only they'd had more time to play.

 

Dusty has said (paraphrased) at various times throughout his Cubs tenure:

 

1. We're trying to win now. We're here to win games and championships, not develop players, so I can't play rookies.

 

2. We owe it to guys who've been on the roster, like Neifi Perez, to play them.

 

3. We owe it to Philadelphia and Florida to start our best guys since they are in a pennant race.

 

So, Dusty, when do we evaluate our youth?

[tgk]

but the Cubs should be trying their best to win, that includes placing the best line-up possible on the field.

 

Perhaps they should have tried that their first 5.5 months of the season.

I'm sure they did. Again, I never said I agreed with his line-ups, just that his logic of trying to win was sound. You play to win the games. I could care less who else gets in the playoffs, simply because they're not the Cubs, but as a baseball fan I think it is important to maintain the integrity of competitive balance.

 

Remember, while we like our young players and want to see them get a decent chance, we also want free agents to sign with the Cubs too. Giving Maddux the extra start and continung to play veterans while mixing in kids may not augment the chances of signing free agents in the future, but a reputation for sitting veterans and not allowing a chance a meaningful personal milestones could be a deterrent for some players in the future.

 

What a load. All that talk of kissing up to potential free agents has achieved absolutely nothing. Great free agents don't sign with teams based on how much the manager bends over for them. They sign with the team with the best combination of money/chance to win. It is completely hypocritical, and in my opinion moronic, to try and pound into the heads of the kids the need to play for the good of the team and ignore individual statistics, and then repeatedly sacrifice the opportunity to give some experience to the young kids so veterans can get a chance to achieve meangingless goals. There is absolutely no excuse for Mitre and Hill failing to each get at least 3 starts in September.

 

If you'll look closely, I said that playing the vets wouldn't necessaryily help, but that a bad reputation could hurt. Now, do I think this is the #1 consideration of a potential free agent? Of course not. The top considerations are going to be Money, location, and chance to win. The order of those is likely to be decided by what is important to the player. But, it is a part of the decision criteria. If all those things are equal, a negative reputation could impact the player's decision.

 

 

Remember Dusty's stupid excuse for not playing these guys is a lack of experience. You can't get experience until you are given a chance to play. But the Cubs never give these guys chances. I'm not talking about starting a guy on fan appreciation day when you play all 30 guys. I'm talking about giving serious time to legit prospects who need to go through the struggles and learn.

 

Ah, but if they play in Sept. it doesn't count, don't forget that gem.

 

Look, overall I'm with you. I want to see the young players develop because in the case of Murton and Cedeno, they are probably our best options for next year. I'd like to see what Hill can do and I think you could have sat Glendon without really aggravating anyone, including the teams chasing Houston. I think I got a pretty good read on Mitre - A solid mid to back of the rotation guy.

 

Everyone is so ticked about the season and had enough Dusty-isms that anything he says is instantly blown out of the water. I just didn't think this one was that big of a deal. His logic in trying to win is sound, the means he is using to achieve those ends is questionable.

 

I'll check back later, but now I've got to get back to work. I've got my wedding to plan, my wife to kill and Gilder to frame for it. I'm swamped.

 

(Edited for some atrocious type-os. We'll leave the minor ones for posterity.)

[SAMMYWHO]

Ramirez, sidelined since late August with a strained quad muscle, said "I can jog, but I can't run. And I don't hit home runs all the time. I think about doing a lot more in the winter months to get ready for spring training and that is it."

 

I think this is big news also. An injury free Ramirez for 06 would be huge. I personally would be anxious to see how fast he can actually run. :P

[biittner77]

I can understand playing the most veteran lineup possible against the Astros but what about the Brewers? Surely they don't have any WC aspirations at this point.

[brinoch]

I can understand playing the most veteran lineup possible against the Astros but what about the Brewers? Surely they don't have any WC aspirations at this point.

 

Third place is important.

[Careless]

Remebmer 2003? Milwaukee went into Houston on the last weekend and beat them enough that no only did the Cub win the division, they had a day to rest the starters. If the Brewers had sat Richie Sexon and didn't pitch Ben Sheets everyone on this board would have been crying foul. It's the same situation, we're just on the other side of the equation.

Wrong. Some people would cry foul, true, but others would not. We had this discussion 2 years ago.

[Chris]

Riot looked good coming in the game to run and play defense in the bottom of the 9th! Die Hard also looked great for the 1 out they got while he was out there.

[CuseCubFan69]

I just can not understand why Theriot can not start one game against the Brewers or any team that is out of playoff contention. Baker will find any excuse to play his boy toy and it's getting to the point where it seems like he could care less about this team.

[mg420]

i wouldnt mind seeing theroit & fontenot as utility if's and greenberg the 4th of next year. of course thats assuming baker goes elsewhere.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Remebmer 2003? Milwaukee went into Houston on the last weekend and beat them enough that no only did the Cub win the division, they had a day to rest the starters. If the Brewers had sat Richie Sexon and didn't pitch Ben Sheets everyone on this board would have been crying foul. It's the same situation, we're just on the other side of the equation.

Wrong. Some people would cry foul, true, but others would not. We had this discussion 2 years ago.

 

And again, we're not talking about benching Lee or Zambrano. It's benching Hairston/Patterson or Neifi for crying out loud. Rival teams should thank us for giving those spots a chance at success.