Dusty quote

[Larry Horse]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-cub07.html

 

''I've never really had a team, before I got here, that was accused of being a poor fundamental team,'' Baker said. ''My teams have always been fundamentally sound. But I was at a place [san Francisco] for a long time where you can instill these things from the time they are young.''

 

Baker pointed to expansion creating more jobs -- creating better job security for players -- as a reason for crumbling fundamentals.

 

''You can stress it, but the guys still have to react and do it on command,'' Baker said. ''Fundamentals to me, is one of the things that is lacking, period, in baseball.''

 

So this is his defense of the veterans who seem to make the mistakes on this club. Because they weren't here "from the time they were young" they don't know fundamentals. So every team they came from doesn't teach fundamentals? I thought he said "my guys don't bunt"? So if his team in SF could bunt, why can't the Cubs? Wow, is he stupid.

 

And it seems to me that every other team can lay down a bunt or pick up a sign, but for some reason this Dusty team can't. Well, it's not his fault, just ask him.

 

Please someone take this dope.

[Derwood]

He and President Bush should form their own PR company called "Not-My-Fault Productions, Inc."

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

It's becoming obvious he can't handle the heat. Dusty needs to get out the kitchen.

[gflore34]

It's becoming obvious he can't handle the heat. Dusty needs to get out the kitchen.

 

As much as many of us would like to see Dusty permanently removed from the kitchen I believe he'll, at the very least, Manage, I use this term loosely, the Cubs in 2006. Here's hoping Hendry has a stellar offseason...

[TheDude]

A lot of teams make fundamental mistakes. The Cubs are not the only ones, despite the claim.

 

And the Cubs are a young team. The younger players are committing more of the mistakes than the veterans, from my observation. Hairston and Patterson in particular, as well as the younger pitchers in the field.

 

I think Dusty needs to stop defering blame, but I'm a little tired of a new thread or five daily that does nothing to add new criticism. Some of what Dusty said has merit.

[gflore34]

A lot of teams make fundamental mistakes. The Cubs are not the only ones, despite the claim.

 

And the Cubs are a young team. The younger players are committing more of the mistakes than the veterans, from my observation. Hairston and Patterson in particular, as well as the younger pitchers in the field.

 

I think Dusty needs to stop defering blame, but I'm a little tired of a new thread or five daily that does nothing to add new criticism. Some of what Dusty said has merit.

 

Look no further than Team Fundamental last night...

[JC]

 

I think Dusty needs to stop defering blame, but I'm a little tired of a new thread or five daily that does nothing to add new criticism. Some of what Dusty said has merit.

 

But most of it is patented Baker excuse making.

 

Young players have made errors and mental mistakes throughout the history of baseball. Not only that, errors are a part of the game by all players, young and old alike. After all, the common box score of Runs, Hits and Errors didn't just pop up in the '90s.

 

However, fundamental lapses have hamstrung Dusty's Cub tenure. In 2003, the pitchers were awful when fielding the ball. In 2004, Alou, and other regulars, were commonly doubled off base. In 2005, its been generally bad from pitchers covering first to missing signs.

 

Instead of acknowledging the shortcomings of his team, Dusty instead harkens back to his San Fransisco days, or even better, laments the lack of fundamentals throughout the league. (My mom, of course, would reply, "Well, if the whole league jumped off the cliff, would you follow?")

 

Dusty is an absolute baby who does not accept any responsibility. This is just another excuse pattern he is developing to go along with:

 

-media

-fans

-wind

-Wrigley Field

-day games

-heat

-inexperienced young players

-schedule.

 

It is darn near pathological at this point. Dusty is indefensible, and I have no problem with anyone ever starting a thread that points to a new Cub related topic, in this case, Dusty's most recent comments.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think that's what aggravates me the most. Rather than Dusty admitting it's been a problem and confessing it is something the coaching staff needs to work on improving, he instead blames it on rookies not learning in the minors, or players having too much job security, or whatever. I don't want to hear excuses, I want to see improvement.

 

I wonder how my school would like it if instead of working toward improving my students ability, I simply sat around and offered new excuses on why they can't learn.

 

I mean, I'm not supposed to teach this in 7th grade. Theys should have learned it before they had gotten to me. :roll:

[waffle]

I remember in an interview with Dontrell he praised the cubs minor leagues for focusing on the fundementals, he was referring to his ability to bunt as I remember.

[YearofDaCubs]

As a manager he should take responsibility for the players. If they are missing signs, you teach them. Just another reason to wish Dusty the heck out of here!

[TheDude]

However, fundamental lapses have hamstrung Dusty's Cub tenure. In 2003, the pitchers were awful when fielding the ball. In 2004, Alou, and other regulars, were commonly doubled off base. In 2005, its been generally bad from pitchers covering first to missing signs.

 

Instead of acknowledging the shortcomings of his team, Dusty instead harkens back to his San Fransisco days, or even better, laments the lack of fundamentals throughout the league. (My mom, of course, would reply, "Well, if the whole league jumped off the cliff, would you follow?")

I agree with all of that. However, people are now at the point where they are searching for ways to make Baker look bad. There is nothing wrong with stating that fundamentals are an issue league-wide. Yes, take issue with the fact that he defered blame yet again with respect to his own team and ability to manage. But that doesn't make the statement false or idiotic.

 

All you have to do is listen to the players who marvel at Iguchi or Ichiro for their fundamentals. There does appear to be a gap in the US with the current generation, but perhaps that the "old" in me talking.

[dalgreen]

However, fundamental lapses have hamstrung Dusty's Cub tenure. In 2003, the pitchers were awful when fielding the ball. In 2004, Alou, and other regulars, were commonly doubled off base. In 2005, its been generally bad from pitchers covering first to missing signs.

 

Instead of acknowledging the shortcomings of his team, Dusty instead harkens back to his San Fransisco days, or even better, laments the lack of fundamentals throughout the league. (My mom, of course, would reply, "Well, if the whole league jumped off the cliff, would you follow?")

I agree with all of that. However, people are now at the point where they are searching for ways to make Baker look bad. There is nothing wrong with stating that fundamentals are an issue league-wide. Yes, take issue with the fact that he defered blame yet again with respect to his own team and ability to manage. But that doesn't make the statement false or idiotic.

 

All you have to do is listen to the players who marvel at Iguchi or Ichiro for their fundamentals. There does appear to be a gap in the US with the current generation, but perhaps that the "old" in me talking.

 

I've grown extremely tired of Baker's excuses as well, but there will be people (particularly on here) who will take every opportunity to blow anything Baker says out of proportion just out of pure hatred without any want to offer up good baseball talk. I agree with you, fundamentals are down in baseball and other sports, but some seem incapable of even stating Baker's right even if it's in a small way. In basketball, the art of passing seems to have left as well as the mid-range jumper and free throw shooting -- all fundamentals. In football, I get sick of seeing guys who only hit instead of wrapping up and making the tackle, I get sick of seeing guys on 3rd and 8 running six yard patterns and falling short of a first down by a yard. Again, fundamentals. Baker's right, fundamentals are down everywhere, catchers refusing to shift their body to block pitches in the dirt, players' inability to lay down a bunt, or run the bases. Baker's right, but if any other manager had have said this it wouldn't have been scrutinized and criticized. Again, for those who love to read what they want to read, I hate the excuses that Baker makes a lot of times, but he's right that fundamentals in baseball aren't what they used to be. Unless, of course, you've only been following baseball for the last ten years, then I can see why you couldn't see a difference in the fundamentals of today's game vs. the past.

[biittner77]

I can't help wondering if the praise that St. Louis seems to get for doing the little things well will inspire other franchises to focus on those areas.

 

Perhaps some of the success of the moneyball philosophy is that they've stopped asking the players to do things that they don't know how to do. Specificly, nobody really knows how to steal bases anymore. There are a few exceptions but it's not really as important a weapon as it once was. So rather than force players to take that risk, the moneyball philosophy is "don't bother, it's not worth the risk."

 

I will never complain about anyone other than pitchers not being able to sacrifice bunt. PLayers don't get drafted because they were laying down sac bunts, they get drafted for driving the ball.

[stuy119]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-cub07.html

 

''I've never really had a team, before I got here, that was accused of being a poor fundamental team,'' Baker said. ''My teams have always been fundamentally sound. But I was at a place [san Francisco] for a long time where you can instill these things from the time they are young.''

 

Um, Dusty, you NEVER had a group of guys who came up as young players where you were able to instill these things.

 

Are you just making up stories again and hoping no one will notice? :roll:

[Larry Horse]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-cub07.html

 

''I've never really had a team, before I got here, that was accused of being a poor fundamental team,'' Baker said. ''My teams have always been fundamentally sound. But I was at a place [san Francisco] for a long time where you can instill these things from the time they are young.''

 

Um, Dusty, you NEVER had a group of guys who came up as young players where you were able to instill these things.

 

Are you just making up stories again and hoping no one will notice? :roll:

 

He had one player during his tenure in SF that came up through the system. Rich Aurilia. That's it.

 

"but there will be people (particularly on here) who will take every opportunity to blow anything Baker says out of proportion just out of pure hatred without any want to offer up good baseball talk."

 

Wrong. This is another case of Baker passing the buck. Remember when the three pitchers didn't cover first? Baker's response: Ask Larry. This is not another case of Dusty Busting. It's another case of Dusty skirting his responsiblilty.

 

I like how he says how his teams don't finish under .500 and my teams are fundamentally sound. Well guess what Dusty, the Cubs are "your team" and the team I've watched the last two years stink at the fundamentals and are medicore at best. It's interesting how he tries to distance himself from the problems when things go bad. But as long as he finishes .500 and the Cubs still don't know if Murton and Cedeno can play everyday, that's OK. I guess I should stop now with the "pure hatred" of Dusty.

[erik316wttn]

A lot of teams make fundamental mistakes. The Cubs are not the only ones, despite the claim.

 

And the Cubs are a young team. The younger players are committing more of the mistakes than the veterans, from my observation. Hairston and Patterson in particular, as well as the younger pitchers in the field.

 

I think Dusty needs to stop defering blame, but I'm a little tired of a new thread or five daily that does nothing to add new criticism. Some of what Dusty said has merit.

 

You're right. I've seen poor fundimental play in games where the Cubs aren't involved. It does happen, and Sandberg was right in his HOF speech that someone's game shouldn't consist of entirely home runs and nothing else.

 

However, it is aboslutely and totally inexcusable to see this team make mistakes over and over and over again that little league players know not to make.

[NewUserName]

I read this earlier and have come back to it after some serious thought.

1. Does this just seem bizarre?

2. Exactly what did Cedeno do wrong?

3. Did someone throw Spier under the bus?

4. Why did Hairston even deny knowing that he missed a sign?

5. At least Spiers was taking some responsibility. It seems that noone else is

6. This is a little off topic but bare with me. In todays society it seems ok for jr high and high school kids to not have manners, dress inappropriatly, disrespect adults, use having a bad teacher as an excuss for getting bad grades, argue with refs and I am sure that you can add alot of your own. My children have been raised to more of a throw back style. They dress modestly, call adults mr and mrs, have no excuss for poor grades, follow the golden rule. They arent perfect by any stretch of the imagination but they do pretty good. I also think that these traits will help them succeed latter in life just as much as doing well in school or sports. One of the things I hear alot from other parents is how we do it in modern times. Its simple,it is the rules of the house they live in.

How does this pretain to the Cubs. I will use an example from last year that really bothered me and showed me that Dusty wasnt running the ship as he should. Twice Aram came up with runners on 1 and 2 and noone out late in tied games. It was clearly a bunting situation. Neither time did he bunt. Both times the Cubs didnt score in the inning. Dusty said that he didnt have Aram bunt because he hadnt done it in a long time. I agree that he shouldnt have him do it in a key spot in a game if he wasnt prepared. My question though was why wasnt he prepared? Also if he couldnt do it why wasnt someone put in who could? The answer to both questions seems to be that you do not want to rub the modern star athlete the wrong way by either having him practice bunting or taking him out in a key situation. How this relates to the present situation is Are they taking extra sign reading practice? Since Hairston has done this several times is he being benched and TOLD WHY? The answer to almost all fundemental question is they need to be practiced everyday. If they are practiced everyday they will seem important to the manager. If they seem important to the manager it will be important to the players. If you work on something for 20 straight days it will become a routine.

7. Basically if a team is consistently bad at fundementals it is the managers fault. Also any true leader will take responsibility for problems not blame others.

[biittner77]

Twice Aram came up with runners on 1 and 2 and noone out late in tied games. It was clearly a bunting situation. Neither time did he bunt.

 

The words Aramis Ramirez and sac bunt should never be used in the same situation. Ramirez is the 2nd best hitter on the team. I never want him to bunt, ever.

[AlwaysaCub]

Twice Aram came up with runners on 1 and 2 and noone out late in tied games. It was clearly a bunting situation. Neither time did he bunt. Both times the Cubs didnt score in the inning. Dusty said that he didnt have Aram bunt because he hadnt done it in a long time. I agree that he shouldnt have him do it in a key spot in a game if he wasnt prepared. My question though was why wasnt he prepared? Also if he couldnt do it why wasnt someone put in who could? The answer to both questions seems to be that you do not want to rub the modern star athlete the wrong way by either having him practice bunting or taking him out in a key situation.

 

I think the reasoning there is that Aramis is the guy you pay to create runs. I don't think it has anything to do with Aramis's ego. Dusty goes with the guy he thinks he's clutch, his cleanup hitter. Do you think cleanup hitters on any team usually bunt?

 

Okay, say he did get the bunt down. Know what happens next? Intentional walk. So, basically you just took that bat out of the hands of the fourth AND fifth hitters, and at that point in our lineup the hitters start getting weaker.

The great example of this is the game where Neifi ended up hitting his 10th inning grand slam. Todd Walker doubled, so DLee was IBBed. Next, Burnitz, hitting cleanup, laid down a successful sac bunt. So Aramis was IBBed as well. Barrett, hitting sixth, struck out. Neifi 99 times out of 100 does not hit a grand slam there, and 75% of the time we don't score any runs there, after a leadoff double. Did the sac bunt necessarily make sense there?

[NewUserName]

The situations I was referring to happened last year. I may be wrong about it being ARam both times it may have been Moises one of the times.

 

Though I dont remember all of the ifs and whats. The point I was trying to make was that Dusty acknowledge in his PC that bunting would have been the best play he just didnt have faith in his player to do it. Dusty just accepted the fact that he had players who couldnt do a fundamental play and instead of making sure the player was prepared or putting someone in who could he called for a play that he thought was wrong. Yes this is bad managing. I didnt mean it as a personnal attack on ARam.

 

In the Cardinal game earlier this year you would have to figure out if you had a better chance of scoring from 2nd with Burnitz, Aram and Barrett or scoring from 3rd with Barrett and Perez. At first glance this does seem obvious. Looking at the numbers, BA with runners in scoring position Burnitz 255 ARAM 327 Barrett 296 Perez 285. Still obvious. However Burnitz has grounded into 11 DPs and ARAM 15 while Barrett has grounded into only 7. Starting to see some reasoning. If you also factor in that a run can be scored from 3rd on a fly ball, pass ball, wild pitch, balk, some ground balls, walk, hbp and other assortment of things. I would say the chances were about the same either way. The only reason it was only a 28% chance of scoring that inning was because Barrett KOd. I also believe that Dusty didnt even consider that ARAM was going to be walked.

[goonys evil twin]

The point I was trying to make was that Dusty acknowledge in his PC that bunting would have been the best play he just didnt have faith in his player to do it.

 

Well then he was wrong. Sac bunting with your RBI middle of the order guys is an awful strategy. It's especially bad when you have a lineup with the Cubs with only 1 or 2 reliably hitters, and the rest a bunch of hacks. Having Ramirez sac bunt so Hollansworth could try for a sac fly is just not smart baseball.

[JC]

Last year when JD Drew was with the Braves, he tried to bunt. At the time, he was mired in a pretty bad slump. He was also hitting clean-up.

 

I can't remember which on-air team it was, but the announcers were beside themselves that he was bunting. Mind you, he was bunting for a hit, not a sacrifice. It could have even been Skip or Don Sutton.

 

Does anyone recall watching that game?

[CuseCubFan69]

Last year when JD Drew was with the Braves, he tried to bunt. At the time, he was mired in a pretty bad slump. He was also hitting clean-up.

 

I can't remember which on-air team it was, but the announcers were beside themselves that he was bunting. Mind you, he was bunting for a hit, not a sacrifice. It could have even been Skip or Don Sutton.

 

Does anyone recall watching that game?

 

I think it depends on the player. I had a kid marred in a slump and had him drop a drag bunt and he hit 600 after that. It gets you out of that mental slump sometimes. I would not try that with ARam though.....Drew, why not depending on the situation.

[JC]

Last year when JD Drew was with the Braves, he tried to bunt. At the time, he was mired in a pretty bad slump. He was also hitting clean-up.

 

I can't remember which on-air team it was, but the announcers were beside themselves that he was bunting. Mind you, he was bunting for a hit, not a sacrifice. It could have even been Skip or Don Sutton.

 

Does anyone recall watching that game?

 

I think it depends on the player. I had a kid marred in a slump and had him drop a drag bunt and he hit 600 after that. It gets you out of that mental slump sometimes. I would not try that with ARam though.....Drew, why not depending on the situation.

 

I agree. I thought the booth guys were being way too harsh considering the circumstances and the person at the plate. JD Drew bunting for a basehit is considerably different than ARam sacrificing.

[NewUserName]

ok. The fact if bunting was the right or wrong thing to do wasnt really the point. Dusty believed it was the right thing to do. He didnt do it because he didnt think the player could execute. So he went with what he thought was wrong because a player couldnt execute a fundamental play. This is the bad management approach that I was talking about. He didnt have a player prepared to do what he wanted him to do. He left the player in the game and switched his plan. Than after the game used the players inability to make a play as an excuse for not doing what he thought was right. This seems to be the problem with alot of these fundamental things.

In the problem with the signs he seems to be taking about the same approach. His excuss seems to be the modern player not being good fundamental players. I just believe that they are not good fundamental players is because Dusty doesnt prepare them to be and then hold them accountable for not doing it.