Trib says Walker "probably as good as gone"

[JC]

 

Another thread referenced a BP chat, I think, that worded the transaction a little odd. I am relying on what I remember from remarks made by both Epstein and Hendry. Hendry at one point provided a detailed account of how the day unfolded.

 

Hendry said there would be no deal unless they threw in Murton. No Murton, no deal. That push came from Hendry, not Epstein or any of the other GMs involved in the trade.

 

Lets not get wrapped around the Maypole here with semantics.

 

What I am saying is that Hendry never identified Murton as a part of this trade. In fact, based on my memory of the accounts, Hendry was resisting trading Harris, who Minaya was demanding.

 

To easy Hendry's loss of Harris, Epstein stepped up and offered Murton.

 

So, yes, the deal was likely dead without Murton. However, the topic arose in the context of discussing players acquired by Hendry which may or may not support his renewed value of OBP. So, the way in which Murton's name entered the deal is of some importance. If, in fact, Murton was tossed in by Epstein, at Epstein's suggestion, as I remembered, it lessens support for the argument that Hendry is targeting more OBP friendly batters.

[rawaction]

I never said Hendry has been targeting OBP players. I said he's aware of OBP as an important statistic.

[JC]

I never said Hendry has been targeting OBP players. I said he's aware of OBP as an important statistic.

 

Yes, you're right. Those were your exact words. But, its essentially the same thing. You later said that acquiring Matt Murton gave you hope that Hendry is placing greater value in OBP, true?

[rawaction]

I never said Hendry has been targeting OBP players. I said he's aware of OBP as an important statistic.

 

Yes, you're right. Those were your exact words. But, its essentially the same thing. You later said that acquiring Matt Murton gave you hope that Hendry is placing greater value in OBP, true?

 

How is it essentially the same thing? I basically said that he has made moves in the last couple years to lead me to believe he at least is aware that it's an important stat. Just because I argued that him acquiring players with high OBP potential, doesn't mean that I am arguing that he is specifically targeting similar players. If he was Hollandsworth, Burnitz, and Perez wouldn't have been regular starters for 3/4 of the season.

[JC]

I never said Hendry has been targeting OBP players. I said he's aware of OBP as an important statistic.

 

Yes, you're right. Those were your exact words. But, its essentially the same thing. You later said that acquiring Matt Murton gave you hope that Hendry is placing greater value in OBP, true?

 

How is it essentially the same thing? I basically said that he has made moves in the last couple years to lead me to believe he at least is aware that it's an important stat. Just because I argued that him acquiring players with high OBP potential, doesn't mean that I am arguing that he is specifically targeting similar players. If he was Hollandsworth, Burnitz, and Perez wouldn't have been regular starters for 3/4 of the season.

 

For Pete's sake, I conceded the point. You're right. You never literally argued that Hendry was targetting high OBP guys. But, you, in fact, said that the acquisition of Murton gave you hope that Hendry was valuing OBP. I don't think it is such leap, or that big of a deal, to characterize the argument as I did. Further, because the issue had gone off on a tangent regarding the nuts and bolts of the acquisition of Murton, I thought that I could more easily summarize the argument that way.

[rawaction]

I never said Hendry has been targeting OBP players. I said he's aware of OBP as an important statistic.

 

Yes, you're right. Those were your exact words. But, its essentially the same thing. You later said that acquiring Matt Murton gave you hope that Hendry is placing greater value in OBP, true?

 

How is it essentially the same thing? I basically said that he has made moves in the last couple years to lead me to believe he at least is aware that it's an important stat. Just because I argued that him acquiring players with high OBP potential, doesn't mean that I am arguing that he is specifically targeting similar players. If he was Hollandsworth, Burnitz, and Perez wouldn't have been regular starters for 3/4 of the season.

 

For Pete's sake, I conceded the point. You're right. You never literally argued that Hendry was targetting high OBP guys. But, you, in fact, said that the acquisition of Murton gave you hope that Hendry was valuing OBP. I don't think it is such leap, or that big of a deal, to characterize the argument as I did. Further, because the issue had gone off on a tangent regarding the nuts and bolts of the acquisition of Murton, I thought that I could more easily summarize the argument that way.

 

I just think that it makes a big difference in the argument. And I'm making sure I'm not being villified for something I didn't say. You did say "it lessens the support for the argument that Hendry is targeting more OBP friendly batters". If that was my argument, I would clearly be the loser in that one, don't you agree?

 

Cuse's post perfectly highlights the way I feel about the situation. I clearly said in my first post on the matter that Hendry's lack of direction either way is cause enough to criticize him. You are the one that took the tangent on the Murton situation. It doesn't matter how it got done, but Hendry acquired a player with the best control of the strikezone in the organization, and you refuse to give him credit for it. You refuse to give him credit for acquiring the best OBP players in the lineup, because he may or may not been looking at that exact category when acquiring them.

[biittner77]

Hollandsworth, Burnitz, and Perez wouldn't have been regular starters for 3/4 of the season[/b].

 

 

I don't believe Hendry ever envisioned Hollandsworth and Perez starting as many games as they did. Is not too much of a stretch to believe that Hendry thought Dubois would takeover in LF. OBP was one of his strengths throughout Dubois' minor league career. Perez was supposed to back up Nomar. back up MI that get on base a lot are pretty hard to find.

 

As for Burnitz, by the time he was signed there weren't many other options available.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't believe Hendry ever envisioned Hollandsworth and Perez starting as many games as they did. Is not too much of a stretch to believe that Hendry thought Dubois would takeover in LF.

 

Actually, Hollandsworth was told by Hendry that he was signed to be the starter.

[JC]

I don't believe Hendry ever envisioned Hollandsworth and Perez starting as many games as they did. Is not too much of a stretch to believe that Hendry thought Dubois would takeover in LF.

 

Actually, Hollandsworth was told by Hendry that he was signed to be the starter.

 

Didn't Dusty or Jim state at the convention that he'd start at least 140 games?

 

I may have made that up.

[biittner77]

I don't believe Hendry ever envisioned Hollandsworth and Perez starting as many games as they did. Is not too much of a stretch to believe that Hendry thought Dubois would takeover in LF.

 

Actually, Hollandsworth was told by Hendry that he was signed to be the starter.

 

Didn't Dusty or Jim state at the convention that he'd start at least 140 games?

 

I may have made that up.

 

I seem to remember Baker saying that Hollandsworth would start 140 games. I refuse to believe that any knowledgable baseball person would say something like that and actually mean it. Hendry doesn't make out the lineup card so it would be silly for him to say who will or won't play.

[jtownie]

I don't believe Hendry ever envisioned Hollandsworth and Perez starting as many games as they did. Is not too much of a stretch to believe that Hendry thought Dubois would takeover in LF.

 

Actually, Hollandsworth was told by Hendry that he was signed to be the starter.

 

Didn't Dusty or Jim state at the convention that he'd start at least 140 games?

 

I may have made that up.

 

I seem to remember Baker saying that Hollandsworth would start 140 games. I refuse to believe that any knowledgable baseball person would say something like that and actually mean it. Hendry doesn't make out the lineup card so it would be silly for him to say who will or won't play.

 

I thought when they signed Hollandsworth Hendry said that he told Todd he would be given every chance to win the starters job but that it wasn't guaranteed; even though Baker was not going to let Dubois be an out-right starter.

 

Sometimes I think Hendry has an idea in his head of what he wants done with the team and when Dusty refuses to follow suit he doesn't say anything. Sort of a passive-agressive type mentality. Hendry makes comments that seem to be in-line with the thinking around here but he always says "it's up to Dusty what to do with player A."