Nomar situation after the year..

[Fro]

Have you been watching him play the last couple weeks? He is much lighter(hm-m-m-m) than he was in April. His fielding skills have diminished and is a shell of his former self.

 

Now is the time to let the farm system kick in and let Ronnie Cedeno start.

Not really. He looks the same as he did before.

 

Check your tv. He's 10 pounds lighter than April. Numerous media people in Chicago have noticed the same thing.

 

Kinda hard to lift weights with a groin that's shot. It'd be one thing if he lost 20 or 30 pounds but that's pretty normal especially when you're recovering from an injury that makes it tough to lift.

 

I think a lot of players have used different things over the past 5-6 years and I don't think Nomar will ever put up numbers like he did in 99 or 00, but he's still a very good SS even if he turns into just a .300, .850 OPS, 25 HR hitter instead of .350, near-1.000 OPS, 35 HR hitter.

[mul21]

Wow, all of a sudden Nomar is a roid user? Come on, let's be serious now. Nomar was never ripped and accusing him of using roids isnt fair.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Take a look at the pic and tell me Nomar wasn't pretty well put together.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/jinx/00s/030501lg.jpg

[CubbieRich]

Nomar's been hitting .393 since he returned. That's not exactly a shell of his former self.

 

It's .343...with 1 HR and 1 RBI. Pretty expensive to pay $8 million+ for a singles hitter with a fading glove.

 

He's a singles hitter based on his first 20-something at bats back?

 

More like 32 AB..since he got back. He's not the Nomar of old by any stretch and not worth the $8 million+ he is making now and will seek next year.

 

Wentzville, huh? I used to call on customers off of Highway N near 40.

[Uber]

Nomar's been hitting .393 since he returned. That's not exactly a shell of his former self.

 

It's .343...with 1 HR and 1 RBI. Pretty expensive to pay $8 million+ for a singles hitter with a fading glove.

 

He's a singles hitter based on his first 20-something at bats back?

 

Don't you know small samples are the perfect way to validate your arguements?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wow, all of a sudden Nomar is a roid user? Come on, let's be serious now. Nomar was never ripped and accusing him of using roids isnt fair.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Take a look at the pic and tell me Nomar wasn't pretty well put together.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/jinx/00s/030501lg.jpg

 

I agree that Nomar is ripped in that picture, but that article was all about how Nomar got that body, explaining his workouts in great detail.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Nomar's been hitting .393 since he returned. That's not exactly a shell of his former self.

 

It's .343...with 1 HR and 1 RBI. Pretty expensive to pay $8 million+ for a singles hitter with a fading glove.

 

He's a singles hitter based on his first 20-something at bats back?

 

More like 32 AB..since he got back. He's not the Nomar of old by any stretch and not worth the $8 million+ he is making now and will seek next year.

 

Wentzville, huh? I used to call on customers off of Highway N near 40.

 

How can you say that he's not the Nomar of old? He's always hit for great average and good power for a SS, and he's already off to a great start hitting for average since his return.

 

Funny you mention N, I think I may be headed there later today.

[marc_foust]

I'd like to see Nomar back at short and Walker back at second, too. Why would we want to see Nomar in left? We would be taking above average production from a SS and turning it into below average production for a corner outfielder. We can find a corner outfielder in the off season. I don't think we can find a SS with the potential to put up numbers like Nomar. Cendeno is nice insurrance against injury.

 

I agree we can find a corner outfielder. Question is can we find two? Unless Lawton is kept or Murton starts we are stuck having to find two corner outfielders for next year. In a weak FA class and not wanting to sell the farm I really think that an outfield of Nomar/Patterson/Giles or Nomar/Patterson/(Kearns or Huff etc.) could put up some acceptable power numbers. While maybe not perfect it will be far better than what we have now. I think that Nomar can easily put up better numbers than Lawton and Murton in Left.

[erik316wttn]

I'd like to see Nomar back at short and Walker back at second, too. Why would we want to see Nomar in left? We would be taking above average production from a SS and turning it into below average production for a corner outfielder. We can find a corner outfielder in the off season. I don't think we can find a SS with the potential to put up numbers like Nomar. Cendeno is nice insurrance against injury.

 

I agree we can find a corner outfielder. Question is can we find two? Unless Lawton is kept or Murton starts we are stuck having to find two corner outfielders for next year. In a weak FA class and not wanting to sell the farm I really think that an outfield of Nomar/Patterson/Giles or Nomar/Patterson/(Kearns or Huff etc.) could put up some acceptable power numbers. While maybe not perfect it will be far better than what we have now. I think that Nomar can easily put up better numbers than Lawton and Murton in Left.

 

But then we have to overpay for a SS who probably won't produce as much as a healthy Nomar. Nomars prodution would be average for a LF'er, plus you're asking him to play a position he's never played before. He could take to it quite well, but the chances are equal that he could be absolutely brutal, too.

 

I'd rather have Nomars numbers at short and abover-average production in left than average to below average production for a LF'er and below average at short.

 

you're not going to find anyone in this offseason better than Nomar at short.

[marc_foust]

I'd like to see Nomar back at short and Walker back at second, too. Why would we want to see Nomar in left? We would be taking above average production from a SS and turning it into below average production for a corner outfielder. We can find a corner outfielder in the off season. I don't think we can find a SS with the potential to put up numbers like Nomar. Cendeno is nice insurrance against injury.

 

I agree we can find a corner outfielder. Question is can we find two? Unless Lawton is kept or Murton starts we are stuck having to find two corner outfielders for next year. In a weak FA class and not wanting to sell the farm I really think that an outfield of Nomar/Patterson/Giles or Nomar/Patterson/(Kearns or Huff etc.) could put up some acceptable power numbers. While maybe not perfect it will be far better than what we have now. I think that Nomar can easily put up better numbers than Lawton and Murton in Left.

 

But then we have to overpay for a SS who probably won't produce as much as a healthy Nomar. Nomars prodution would be average for a LF'er, plus you're asking him to play a position he's never played before. He could take to it quite well, but the chances are equal that he could be absolutely brutal, too.

 

I'd rather have Nomars numbers at short and abover-average production in left than average to below average production for a LF'er and below average at short.

 

you're not going to find anyone in this offseason better than Nomar at short.

 

Lawton

BA OBP SLG

.269 .370 .421

 

 

Nomar

BA OBP SLG

.320 .368 .544

 

 

If Lawton is considered average than Nomar would be above average for OF. Plus Lawton isnt exactly a GG caliber OF either.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'd like to see Nomar back at short and Walker back at second, too. Why would we want to see Nomar in left? We would be taking above average production from a SS and turning it into below average production for a corner outfielder. We can find a corner outfielder in the off season. I don't think we can find a SS with the potential to put up numbers like Nomar. Cendeno is nice insurrance against injury.

 

I agree we can find a corner outfielder. Question is can we find two? Unless Lawton is kept or Murton starts we are stuck having to find two corner outfielders for next year. In a weak FA class and not wanting to sell the farm I really think that an outfield of Nomar/Patterson/Giles or Nomar/Patterson/(Kearns or Huff etc.) could put up some acceptable power numbers. While maybe not perfect it will be far better than what we have now. I think that Nomar can easily put up better numbers than Lawton and Murton in Left.

 

But then we have to overpay for a SS who probably won't produce as much as a healthy Nomar. Nomars prodution would be average for a LF'er, plus you're asking him to play a position he's never played before. He could take to it quite well, but the chances are equal that he could be absolutely brutal, too.

 

I'd rather have Nomars numbers at short and abover-average production in left than average to below average production for a LF'er and below average at short.

 

you're not going to find anyone in this offseason better than Nomar at short.

 

Lawton

BA OBP SLG

.269 .370 .421

 

 

Nomar

BA OBP SLG

.320 .368 .544

 

 

If Lawton is considered average than Nomar would be above average for OF. Plus Lawton isnt exactly a GG caliber OF either.

 

Nomar hasn't hit that well since 2000. Lawton has put up numbers better than his career marks this year, and Nomar's numbers have declined for several years running. Fortunately, Nomar is falling from such a high level that he'll still be above average for a SS, but not for a corner OF.

[YearofDaCubs]

Wow, all of a sudden Nomar is a roid user? Come on, let's be serious now. Nomar was never ripped and accusing him of using roids isnt fair.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Take a look at the pic and tell me Nomar wasn't pretty well put together.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/jinx/00s/030501lg.jpg

Sorry, but that body isn't that big. Granted, everyones bodies are different that body can be easily had by working out. He isn't ripped by any means.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'd like to see Nomar back at short and Walker back at second, too. Why would we want to see Nomar in left? We would be taking above average production from a SS and turning it into below average production for a corner outfielder. We can find a corner outfielder in the off season. I don't think we can find a SS with the potential to put up numbers like Nomar. Cendeno is nice insurrance against injury.

 

I agree we can find a corner outfielder. Question is can we find two? Unless Lawton is kept or Murton starts we are stuck having to find two corner outfielders for next year. In a weak FA class and not wanting to sell the farm I really think that an outfield of Nomar/Patterson/Giles or Nomar/Patterson/(Kearns or Huff etc.) could put up some acceptable power numbers. While maybe not perfect it will be far better than what we have now. I think that Nomar can easily put up better numbers than Lawton and Murton in Left.

Great point about needing to OFers although I would not put Nomar in the OF.

[bannor10]

BTW.....Cool pic of Thanos

 

I'd like to see Nomar back at short and Walker back at second, too. Why would we want to see Nomar in left? We would be taking above average production from a SS and turning it into below average production for a corner outfielder. We can find a corner outfielder in the off season. I don't think we can find a SS with the potential to put up numbers like Nomar. Cendeno is nice insurrance against injury.

 

I agree we can find a corner outfielder. Question is can we find two? Unless Lawton is kept or Murton starts we are stuck having to find two corner outfielders for next year. In a weak FA class and not wanting to sell the farm I really think that an outfield of Nomar/Patterson/Giles or Nomar/Patterson/(Kearns or Huff etc.) could put up some acceptable power numbers. While maybe not perfect it will be far better than what we have now. I think that Nomar can easily put up better numbers than Lawton and Murton in Left.

Great point about needing to OFers although I would not put Nomar in the OF.

[HoopsCubs]

If he can stay healthy the rest of the season and hit pretty well which I believe he will, bring him back for another year and see how he does.

 

Any thoughts on that one?

 

I wouldn't hesitate one second to sign him to a 2-year deal. As for 2B, I'd like us to acquire Kent or Soriano. Todd Walker doesn't do much for me.

[bannor10]

If he can stay healthy the rest of the season and hit pretty well which I believe he will, bring him back for another year and see how he does.

 

Any thoughts on that one?

 

I wouldn't hesitate one second to sign him to a 2-year deal. As for 2B, I'd like us to acquire Kent or Soriano. Todd Walker doesn't do much for me.

 

I would agree with Soriano....He can be a building block for the team...Kent is better than Walker but I would like to see the Cubs, if they are going to trade prospests use them for someone for more than 1 year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If he can stay healthy the rest of the season and hit pretty well which I believe he will, bring him back for another year and see how he does.

 

Any thoughts on that one?

 

I wouldn't hesitate one second to sign him to a 2-year deal. As for 2B, I'd like us to acquire Kent or Soriano. Todd Walker doesn't do much for me.

 

I'm surprised to hear you say that Hoops. Walker has been very good this year, better than Soriano by some metrics. Kent has been better, but is he 5 million dollars plus the cost to acquire him better than Walker?

[mul21]

Wow, all of a sudden Nomar is a roid user? Come on, let's be serious now. Nomar was never ripped and accusing him of using roids isnt fair.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Take a look at the pic and tell me Nomar wasn't pretty well put together.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/jinx/00s/030501lg.jpg

Sorry, but that body isn't that big. Granted, everyones bodies are different that body can be easily had by working out. He isn't ripped by any means.

 

Ripped has nothing to do with size. Ripped is referring to how well defined the muscle tone is. If you mean he wasn't huge, fine, but that picture shows he was in fact "ripped". I think if you look at him now compared to when he was at his best, he is noticeably smaller. I'm a big fan of Nomar and want to see him produce as much as anybody, but you have to look at the injuries and fall off in #'s and consider that steroids may have been a part of that. I'm not making any definitive statement that he took steroids, I just don't think it can be ruled out.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Wow, all of a sudden Nomar is a roid user? Come on, let's be serious now. Nomar was never ripped and accusing him of using roids isnt fair.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Take a look at the pic and tell me Nomar wasn't pretty well put together.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/jinx/00s/030501lg.jpg

Sorry, but that body isn't that big. Granted, everyones bodies are different that body can be easily had by working out. He isn't ripped by any means.

 

Ripped has nothing to do with size. Ripped is referring to how well defined the muscle tone is. If you mean he wasn't huge, fine, but that picture shows he was in fact "ripped". I think if you look at him now compared to when he was at his best, he is noticeably smaller. I'm a big fan of Nomar and want to see him produce as much as anybody, but you have to look at the injuries and fall off in #'s and consider that steroids may have been a part of that. I'm not making any definitive statement that he took steroids, I just don't think it can be ruled out.

 

I must be missing something. I dont ever remember Nomar being very big, he has always been kinda scrawny to me.

[HoopsCubs]

I'm surprised to hear you say that Hoops. Walker has been very good this year, better than Soriano by some metrics. Kent has been better, but is he 5 million dollars plus the cost to acquire him better than Walker?

 

From a strict OPS standpoint, Walker is currently ranked 10th among 2B in the majors. 4 of the 9 guys ahead of him (Vidro, Cantu, Biggio, Polanco) are within a few percentage poins of Walker, so you can easily make the argument that Walker is 6th, which is pretty good. But, the 5 ahead of him (Giles, Soriano, Utley, Kent, Roberts) are significantly better than him, so I would look to see how to acquire one of them, although I doubt Atlanta, Philly or Baltimore would trade theirs. From the Cubs standpoint, I don't look at it so much as $2.5M vs. $7.5M. I cling to the belief that if Jeff Kent (batting 4th) or Alfonso Soriano (batting 6th) were in this line-up, we'd be a lot closer to the WC lead, if not leading it.

[da bears]

I personally would like to see Nomar and Walker re-signed in the offseason and then spend the rest of the money on an outfielder and reliever. I know the free agent class is weak, so I guess I would prefer to see Hendry trade for a corner outfielder who the Cubs may have to pay more of the contract if need be.

[HoopsCubs]

I personally would like to see Nomar and Walker re-signed in the offseason and then spend the rest of the money on an outfielder and reliever. I know the free agent class is weak, so I guess I would prefer to see Hendry trade for a corner outfielder who the Cubs may have to pay more of the contract if need be.

 

I just hope Brian Giles doesn't end up in Houston or St. Louis. Both teams probably have the ability to offer 3 years/$27M.

[YearofDaCubs]

Wow, all of a sudden Nomar is a roid user? Come on, let's be serious now. Nomar was never ripped and accusing him of using roids isnt fair.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Take a look at the pic and tell me Nomar wasn't pretty well put together.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/jinx/00s/030501lg.jpg

Sorry, but that body isn't that big. Granted, everyones bodies are different that body can be easily had by working out. He isn't ripped by any means.

 

Ripped has nothing to do with size. Ripped is referring to how well defined the muscle tone is. If you mean he wasn't huge, fine, but that picture shows he was in fact "ripped". I think if you look at him now compared to when he was at his best, he is noticeably smaller. I'm a big fan of Nomar and want to see him produce as much as anybody, but you have to look at the injuries and fall off in #'s and consider that steroids may have been a part of that. I'm not making any definitive statement that he took steroids, I just don't think it can be ruled out.

Considering these guys are athletes their entire lives I can tell you that Nomar isnt that big in the picture and granted not all steroids make you bulky but from that body I would say unlikely. He isn't cut in that pick and he sure isnt bulky. Obviously nobody knwos for certain but really if people consider him a roid user with that body, then you can consider almost all MLB players using roids.

[Cubzfan64]

The only comment I can make here regarding Nomar is based on what I've heard on the Boston sports talk shows.

 

Nomar is generally not loved amongst the sports talk guys I hear - alot of it is bitterness over how he left - they don't believe he really had an ankle injury near the end and said he was a cancer in the clubhouse and didn't want to play for the Red Sox anymore.

 

That said, the discussion has come up numerous times over the last few months about Nomar and steroids - with only a couple exceptions, the majority of Boston radios sports guys who cover(ed) the team and spent time with the players said that Nomar had one of if not THE most rigorous training programs of all the players during his great days with the Sox. Of course as others have said, steroids could have played a part in it and we'll never know, but even the guys who don't like him on the radio admitted that his "ripped" look at one time could very well have been a result of his massive exercise regimen that he followed.

[badgercub]

The only comment I can make here regarding Nomar is based on what I've heard on the Boston sports talk shows.

 

Nomar is generally not loved amongst the sports talk guys I hear - alot of it is bitterness over how he left - they don't believe he really had an ankle injury near the end and said he was a cancer in the clubhouse and didn't want to play for the Red Sox anymore.

 

That said, the discussion has come up numerous times over the last few months about Nomar and steroids - with only a couple exceptions, the majority of Boston radios sports guys who cover(ed) the team and spent time with the players said that Nomar had one of if not THE most rigorous training programs of all the players during his great days with the Sox. Of course as others have said, steroids could have played a part in it and we'll never know, but even the guys who don't like him on the radio admitted that his "ripped" look at one time could very well have been a result of his massive exercise regimen that he followed.

 

Well what do you think roids do? Just taking them doesn make you bigger. Taking them allows you to recover from said rigorous workouts a lot faster. I am not saying Nomar used roids, but roids is what allows you to work out so hard and have such a regimen.

[YearofDaCubs]

The only comment I can make here regarding Nomar is based on what I've heard on the Boston sports talk shows.

 

Nomar is generally not loved amongst the sports talk guys I hear - alot of it is bitterness over how he left - they don't believe he really had an ankle injury near the end and said he was a cancer in the clubhouse and didn't want to play for the Red Sox anymore.

 

That said, the discussion has come up numerous times over the last few months about Nomar and steroids - with only a couple exceptions, the majority of Boston radios sports guys who cover(ed) the team and spent time with the players said that Nomar had one of if not THE most rigorous training programs of all the players during his great days with the Sox. Of course as others have said, steroids could have played a part in it and we'll never know, but even the guys who don't like him on the radio admitted that his "ripped" look at one time could very well have been a result of his massive exercise regimen that he followed.

 

Well what do you think roids do? Just taking them doesn make you bigger. Taking them allows you to recover from said rigorous workouts a lot faster. I am not saying Nomar used roids, but roids is what allows you to work out so hard and have such a regimen.

Yes, your muscles recover at a ridiculous pace and that's why you get bigger.