Nice article (Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg)

[LuvChicagoSports]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/0728onbaseball0728.html

 

 

Joe Morgan insists it's a coincidence.

 

The way he has talked through the years, though, it sure makes it a convenient coincidence.

 

Morgan, who became the 11th second baseman elected to the Hall of Fame in 1990, says a family commitment will keep him from attending Sunday's induction ceremony for fellow second baseman Ryne Sandberg. advertisement

 

Hmmm.

 

(Edited - please don't post the entire text of articles; providing the link and an excerpt is good. Thanks!)

 

 

Thought some others might have enjoyed this.

[Jazz]

Joe Morgan is an jealous prick, always has been, always will be

[LuvChicagoSports]

yep I hear ya that is why I had to post the article. At least one journalist is coming out and saying it. A lot of the idiots at ESPN listen to him too. Rob Neyer ranks Ryno as the 8th best 2b of all time. He lists Alomar and Biggio ahead of him. Makes me sick. Ryno doesn't get the respect he deserves. Oh an Neyer says that Joe Morgan is the best of all time. What a joke.

[imb]

hes probably right.

[LuvChicagoSports]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/0728onbaseball0728.html

 

 

Joe Morgan insists it's a coincidence.

 

The way he has talked through the years, though, it sure makes it a convenient coincidence.

 

Morgan, who became the 11th second baseman elected to the Hall of Fame in 1990, says a family commitment will keep him from attending Sunday's induction ceremony for fellow second baseman Ryne Sandberg. advertisement

 

Hmmm.

 

(Edited - please don't post the entire text of articles; providing the link and an excerpt is good. Thanks!)

 

 

Thought some others might have enjoyed this.

 

Sorry once again.....learning my way around these boards. I'll remember that for the future. I post a lot of articles so that is good to know. ESPN Insider makes articles readily available

[fromthestretch]

yep I hear ya that is why I had to post the article. At least one journalist is coming out and saying it. A lot of the idiots at ESPN listen to him too. Rob Neyer ranks Ryno as the 8th best 2b of all time. He lists Alomar and Biggio ahead of him. Makes me sick. Ryno doesn't get the respect he deserves. Oh an Neyer says that Joe Morgan is the best of all time. What a joke.

 

As much as I like Sandberg and despise Morgan, I'd have to say that Morgan was a slightly better player...just looking at the overall numbers. Sandberg had a bit more power and was better defensively, but Morgan was a much more patient hitter in terms of OBP and stole several more bases. I think Morgan's much higher OBP probably gives him the edge, considering that the rest of their numbers are somewhat comparable.

 

That said, both belong in the Hall of Fame, and I don't think the difference between the two players is as great as some might claim.

 

Did I mention I despise Joe Morgan?

[BigbadB]

yep I hear ya that is why I had to post the article. At least one journalist is coming out and saying it. A lot of the idiots at ESPN listen to him too. Rob Neyer ranks Ryno as the 8th best 2b of all time. He lists Alomar and Biggio ahead of him. Makes me sick. Ryno doesn't get the respect he deserves. Oh an Neyer says that Joe Morgan is the best of all time. What a joke.

 

As much as I like Sandberg and despise Morgan, I'd have to say that Morgan was a slightly better player...just looking at the overall numbers. Sandberg had a bit more power and was better defensively, but Morgan was a much more patient hitter in terms of OBP and stole several more bases. I think Morgan's much higher OBP probably gives him the edge, considering that the rest of their numbers are somewhat comparable.

 

That said, both belong in the Hall of Fame, and I don't think the difference between the two players is as great as some might claim.

 

Did I mention I despise Joe Morgan?

 

I agree that Morgan edges Sandberg in talent, but the huge discrepancy in class gives Sandberg the nod for me.

[dalgreen]

I think it's okay to despise a guy, but you should also be able to acknowledge ones skills, too. I don't like Joe Morgan the announcer, but I also understand why some say he's the greatest second baseman. Defensively, people need to remember how many games Morgan had to play on astroturf vs. Sandberg playing on thick Wrigley grass. I get a kick out of people who never saw Morgan play critique him. That's like people saying Jordan was the best of all time who never saw Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson (pre- 1990), Bill Russell, George Mikan, etc... I can't stand Morgan as an analyst, but he is no worst than the second greatest second baseman in my lifetime. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his committment, but if he doesn't call and congratulate Sandberg then he is a Johnson. Let's not forget that it's not just Sandberg getting in so would he be that petty to skip out on Boggs and Gammons, too? Never mind. Dumb question.

[mopapa]

Joe Morgan is an jealous prick, always has been, always will be

 

Amen. How convenient he has a "family commitment" to keep him away this year. I have to admit, I am glad he's not going to be there. He doesn't deserve to see Ryno's induction.

[B]

Joe Morgan is an jealous prick, always has been, always will be

 

Amen. How convenient he has a "family commitment" to keep him away this year. I have to admit, I am glad he's not going to be there. He doesn't deserve to see Ryno's induction.

 

He probably has to go kiss Barry Bond's butt that day.

[T2E]

Here's a post a made a while back comparing Ryno and Morgan:

 

 
.....	Sandberg	Morgan	   
OBP..	0.344	0.392	   
SLG..	0.452	0.427	   
ISO..	0.167	0.156	   
BB/AB	0.091	0.201	   
K/AB.	0.150	0.109	   
SBR..	39	109.5	 

 

Does Sandbergs .25 points in slugging make up for Morgan's .48 points in OBP and much better Stolen Base Runs? Uh No. Defensively they were both excellent and while Sandberg has a slighly lead in FP% and RF, Morgan turned a slighly greater number of double plays per game.

 

But one thing that is forgotten in all of this raw stating is context. There are two main forms of context to be dealt with.

 

1. The league averages

2. Park effects

 

Morgan played in a time much different than what the game is now. Although for most of his career, the mound was lowered he still played in a different era. During Morgan's career the average hitter hit just .260 with a .326 OBP and a .384 SLG. Morgan, who hit .271/.344/.452 during that time, sees his number get a boost when you consider that Sandberg's league averaged .269/.337/.404. And when you factor in that Morgan already had a higher OPS, his OPS compared to the league is significantly higher than Sandberg's.

 

The other factor to consider is park effects. Here are the batter park effects for seasons with 300 or more at-bats (100=averge, above 100= hitters park):

 

Sandberg	
1982	103
1983	105
1984	109
1985	111
1986	108
1987	104
1988	105
1989	107
1990	107
1991	105
1992	103
1993	102
1996	101
1997	102
AVG.	105.14

 

Morgan	
1965	93
1966	93
1967	97
1969	98
1970	96
1971	97
1972	94
1973	95
1974	99
1975	102
1976	102
1977	102
1978	100
1979	101
1980	92
1981	98
1982	100
1983	99
1984	93
AVG.	97.42

 

Morgan pretty clearly played in tougher ballparks. Park effects don't make a player, but they certainly give Morgan yet another advantage. Although they Morgan played slightly better at home, Sandberg has a huge advantage from Wrigley based on their Retrosheet available splits.

 

 

There is no doubt in my mind that Morgan was the better player. Of course, he is an arrogent, biased, etc... and his refusal to attend the HOF ceremonies is pretty weak.