A couple inquires by the Cubs....

[BigbadB]

And my question was serious. I'm guessing bunting, stealing bases, moving runners over, hitting sac flies, is that right? Am I missing anything?

Those are the basics. There are numerous threads and a strategy article from months ago on the subject (which isn't all that popular among the regulars here).

 

It also includes high percentage of balls put in play, the ability to foul off close pitches that aren't the right pitches to hit, and placing the ball in play where you want in the field. Just as some more examples.

 

Since you have a pretty firm grasp of Pierre's abilities, can you explain why a guy who hit over .320 last year (.376 OBP) and stole over 40 bases only managed to score 100 runs last year in over 720 plate appearances?

 

Mark Bellhorn (not a speed threat) batted lead off about 2/3 of the 2002 season with the Cubs, had a .270ish AVG and an identical OBP to Pierre's season last year, yet scored 86 times in 200 less plate appearances.

 

The league is full of guys who score 100 runs a season. Pierre's speed doesn't seem to translate out to anything all that special to me.

 

I'd rate Adam Dunn as twice the player Pierre is. Hairston might be a slight downgrade to Pierre, but certainly not enough to warrant spending much to get him. My focus would be on Adam Dunn, as he scored the same amount of runs last year as Pierre in 100 less plate appearances, and drove in more than twice as many.

[Chocolate Milk]

Since you have a pretty firm grasp of Pierre's abilities, can you explain why a guy who hit over .320 last year (.376 OBP) and stole over 40 bases only managed to score 100 runs last year in over 720 plate appearances?

 

Mark Bellhorn (not a speed threat) batted lead off about 2/3 of the 2002 season with the Cubs, had a .270ish AVG and an identical OBP to Pierre's season last year, yet scored 86 times in 200 less plate appearances.

 

That's a rather superficial example. Might that quite obviously be because the Redsox lineup was much much better than the Marlins? As a team they outscored the Marlins by 24% (949 to 718) Of course their players are going to have more Runs. How can Pierre effect the rate at which people drive him in? Are you implying it's his fault that he doesn't have Ortiz and Manny hitting behind him?

[BigbadB]

Since you have a pretty firm grasp of Pierre's abilities, can you explain why a guy who hit over .320 last year (.376 OBP) and stole over 40 bases only managed to score 100 runs last year in over 720 plate appearances?

 

Mark Bellhorn (not a speed threat) batted lead off about 2/3 of the 2002 season with the Cubs, had a .270ish AVG and an identical OBP to Pierre's season last year, yet scored 86 times in 200 less plate appearances.

 

That's a rather superficial example. Might that quite obviously be because the Redsox lineup was much much better than the Marlins? As a team they outscored the Marlins by 24% (949 to 718) Of course their players are going to have more Runs. How can Pierre effect the rate at which people drive him in? Are you implying it's his fault that he doesn't have Ortiz and Manny hitting behind him?

 

Bellhorn was a Cub in 2002. He had an average Moises Alou and a slightly above average Sammy Sosa hitting behind him that year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Since you have a pretty firm grasp of Pierre's abilities, can you explain why a guy who hit over .320 last year (.376 OBP) and stole over 40 bases only managed to score 100 runs last year in over 720 plate appearances?

 

Mark Bellhorn (not a speed threat) batted lead off about 2/3 of the 2002 season with the Cubs, had a .270ish AVG and an identical OBP to Pierre's season last year, yet scored 86 times in 200 less plate appearances.

 

That's a rather superficial example. Might that quite obviously be because the Redsox lineup was much much better than the Marlins? As a team they outscored the Marlins by 24% (949 to 718) Of course their players are going to have more Runs. How can Pierre effect the rate at which people drive him in? Are you implying it's his fault that he doesn't have Ortiz and Manny hitting behind him?

 

Corey Patterson had a better rate of Runs Created last year than Pierre. His lack of power really hurts him.

[Chocolate Milk]

Since you have a pretty firm grasp of Pierre's abilities, can you explain why a guy who hit over .320 last year (.376 OBP) and stole over 40 bases only managed to score 100 runs last year in over 720 plate appearances?

 

Mark Bellhorn (not a speed threat) batted lead off about 2/3 of the 2002 season with the Cubs, had a .270ish AVG and an identical OBP to Pierre's season last year, yet scored 86 times in 200 less plate appearances.

 

That's a rather superficial example. Might that quite obviously be because the Redsox lineup was much much better than the Marlins? As a team they outscored the Marlins by 24% (949 to 718) Of course their players are going to have more Runs. How can Pierre effect the rate at which people drive him in? Are you implying it's his fault that he doesn't have Ortiz and Manny hitting behind him?

 

Bellhorn was a Cub in 2002. He had an average Moises Alou and a slightly above average Sammy Sosa hitting behind him that year.

 

I totally missed that. I'm an idiot. Carry on.

[DivineBovine]

I'm not sure I'd call Pierre talented. He's talented like David Eckstein, Chone Figgins, Ryan Freel, or Hairston are talented. Pierre doesn't really do anything particularly well except run fast. It has already been said that most of his success is because his BABIP was high at Dolphin's Stadium, and he wouldn't have that kind of success at Wrigley because of the high grass. Even in his best year (last year) he was no more patient at the plate than Patterson. He only saw about 3.5 pitchers/PA, and walked just as many times as Patterson. The team would be better off with a slugging LF.

 

First off, he is talented. Sure he runs fast, but he can get the bat on the ball and get on base. That's talent. Is Ichiro not talented? I wish Corey Patterson had a fraction of this kind of talent.

 

I'm not so sure a slugger is what the Cubs need. Here are the Cub NL ranks in offensive categories:

 

Average: #1

Home Runs: #1

Slugging Pct: #1

Runs: #6

 

They are already a slugging team. Why the drop off in runs? We all know the Cubs don't walk and get on base:

 

Walks: LAST

OBP: #12 out of 16

 

 

Granted Pierre has not been up to par in terms of OBP, but a speedy leadoff guy who makes contact and gets on base in front of Lee/Aram would definitely help this team. You can drop Walker down to protect Aram and lose Hollandsworth as an everyday player. Or you can move Hairston or drop him down also. Either way, he's a better option than Hairston or Hollandsworth as an outfielder, imo.

[BigbadB]

My point is that Pierre has never scored more than 108 runs in a season, even though he's had over 700 plate appearances in a season, and he's had tremendous hitter's following him in the line up (Helton, Cabrera).

 

His inability to draw walks hurts his value. His 24 caught stealings last year hurt his value.

 

Adam Dunn scored 105 last year in 50 less plate appearances than Pierre.

 

Last year, Todd Walker scored 45 times in just over 250 plate appearances as a lead off hitter. Florida had 3 guys hitting directly behind Pierre last year with OBP's over .360, 4 if you include Choi.

 

I just can't see the speed translating into anything all that special. I think if you deduct the 0-24 from Pierre's OBP for all those caught stealings (24), I don't think you are looking at anything all that special with Pierre. And that was one of his better seasons.

[bhogg]

if we get Pierre, you hit him leadoff with Twalk behind him.

 

I can see a few situations where Pierre gets on, steals 2b. . . . walker with a grounder to 2b. . . . . Pierre on 3B with one out --- Lee and ARam to follow. 9 times outta 10 we're scoring a run there.

 

Not too shabby.

[goonys evil twin]

if we get Pierre, you hit him leadoff with Twalk behind him.

 

I can see a few situations where Pierre gets on, steals 2b. . . . walker with a grounder to 2b. . . . . Pierre on 3B with one out --- Lee and ARam to follow. 9 times outta 10 we're scoring a run there.

 

Not too shabby.

 

I'd be willing to bet $200 that situation won't come up 10 times.

[badger1679666666]

if we get Pierre, you hit him leadoff with Twalk behind him.

 

I can see a few situations where Pierre gets on, steals 2b. . . . walker with a grounder to 2b. . . . . Pierre on 3B with one out --- Lee and ARam to follow. 9 times outta 10 we're scoring a run there.

 

Not too shabby.

 

I'd be willing to bet $200 that situation won't come up 10 times.

 

I don't want Pierre either (see first page) but I'd take that bet and double it in a heartbeat. 10 times the whole year? I'd guarantee that would happen.

[nilodnayr]

Surprised to see that no one has mentioned that has heated up as of late and seems to be breaking out of his crummy streak since the tail end of June.

 

April: 297/343/407 2/5 SB

May: 226/287/264 7/10 SB

June: 262/292/355 9/9 SB

July: 319/373/435 10/11 SB

 

On June 24th his line was 245/292/325

 

To be at 271/318/357 right now means hes been pretty darn good as of late. I like him but believe Hairston +who wed have to give up>Pierre. Is he a FA after this year or does he still have another year of Abri?