Blame Game

[ThePenguin11]

I agree that Corey is not a slugger, but that he thinks he is. He swings from his heels on every swing, which is what a slugger does.

 

Also, I think Penguin's point that Corey never carried the team this year is pretty telling. If you play everyday like Corey, no matter how much you are moved around in the lineup, and you don't have even a short stretch when you carry the team, you deserve to lose your starting job or be demoted.

 

I don't recall Barrett, Burnitz, or Walker "carrying a team" for any stretch this year. That's a ridiculous way to determine anything, completely based on each individual's recollection of events

 

Barrett and Burnitz never really hurt the team either. Burnitz has never really slumped and produced all year long. Barrett despite not having a great year was terriffic defensively at the beginning, throwing out a bunch of attempted basestealers, as I pointed out before. He'd probably have kept it up if not for an ailing shoulder. Neither has been a player that is hurting the lineup. So you can call it ridiculous, but the point that you can't debate is that despite maybe three good defensive plays and two meaningful home runs, he's been awful consistently.

 

I'll let Fred dredge up the stats for you if he feels like it, but suffice to say that Barrett and Burnitz, just like every player not named Pujols or Bonds, have gone through a streak where they've been cold and have hurt the team.

 

That's not the point. The point is that we can actually recall on one hand the times that Corey Patterson helped this team in 2005. Don't you see how ridiculous that is?

Oh, thats the point now? Seems to me your "point" keeps changing.

 

Myself and others have been pointing out a lot of explanations to why Corey Patterson holds more blame than anyone else on this team, sans relief pitching. Since then, there has been no real empirical evidence to point to the opposite. To defend Patterson makes you look like an apologist. We can blame Baker, of course, which i do...But also blame has to lie with the players and to a man, Patterson stands out above all.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think there's plenty of blame to go around for the poor performance thus far and to place it squarely on Patterson is a bit myopic.

 

How much blame should we reserve for Hawkins? What about other members of the pen who failed us in critical situations?

 

How much blame will go to some of the starters who were simply horrible?

 

How much should go to Dusty for not being willing to use Dempster at closer from the outset of the season?

 

If you want to pass around blame, which I feel is a pretty pointless task, there's plenty to go around.

[ThePenguin11]

My conclusion, Patterson deserves some of the blame. That was the purpose of this thread to decide whether or not he deserves any blame. He shouldn't shoulder it all. The bullpen deserves just as much as he does, but to argue that any other player that plays every day deserves to be critized and/or blamed for the teams mishaps is unjust. Neifi was all we had to work with, we now know he stinks. When he was called upon to step up, he did. He came back down to earth and the lightning left the bottle. The difference was that no one had expectations for him to be a major contributor as a stopgap injury fix. I don't blame Dusty for waiting on Cedeno as he couldn't take the chance that he was just a flash in the pan. However, I will blame him if he doesn't give him a fair opportunity to take the SS job until Nomar gets back.

 

And a sidenote: I'm not sure if anyone thought I was trying to say that all blame should lie with Patterson, my thoughts were that he can't go blameless for his lack of production and stubborness to improve his game.

[Chocolate Milk]

I put the entire blame for any loss on Corey. Since Corey hasn't been on the team we have won every game. Coincidence? I think not.

[louisvillecub]

I put the entire blame for any loss on Corey. Since Corey hasn't been on the team we have won every game. Coincidence? I think not.

 

And even when they will lose and he's down in AAA, it'll STILL be his fault!

 

:wink:

[imb]

I agree that Corey is not a slugger, but that he thinks he is. He swings from his heels on every swing, which is what a slugger does.

 

Also, I think Penguin's point that Corey never carried the team this year is pretty telling. If you play everyday like Corey, no matter how much you are moved around in the lineup, and you don't have even a short stretch when you carry the team, you deserve to lose your starting job or be demoted.

 

I don't recall Barrett, Burnitz, or Walker "carrying a team" for any stretch this year. That's a ridiculous way to determine anything, completely based on each individual's recollection of events

 

Barrett and Burnitz never really hurt the team either. Burnitz has never really slumped and produced all year long. Barrett despite not having a great year was terriffic defensively at the beginning, throwing out a bunch of attempted basestealers, as I pointed out before. He'd probably have kept it up if not for an ailing shoulder. Neither has been a player that is hurting the lineup. So you can call it ridiculous, but the point that you can't debate is that despite maybe three good defensive plays and two meaningful home runs, he's been awful consistently.

 

I'll let Fred dredge up the stats for you if he feels like it, but suffice to say that Barrett and Burnitz, just like every player not named Pujols or Bonds, have gone through a streak where they've been cold and have hurt the team.

 

That's not the point. The point is that we can actually recall on one hand the times that Corey Patterson helped this team in 2005. Don't you see how ridiculous that is?

 

Yeah, he's been really bad this year, wonderful, groundbreaking analysis. Personally, I dont judge players based on how many times I can "recall them helping the team". You didn't "recall" Barrett or Burnitz hurting the team this year either, but they did. Of course, when shown those stats, you just ignored them and changed your point.

 

Not that we should really be arguing, because I think we both agree that Corey has sucked this year and deserves some of the blame.

[Chocolate Milk]

I put the entire blame for any loss on Corey. Since Corey hasn't been on the team we have won every game. Coincidence? I think not.

 

And even when they will lose and he's down in AAA, it'll STILL be his fault!

 

:wink:

 

By his squandering his ability and not playing all star caliber CF for the Cubs, then he is the result of the losses we receive when he isn't here too!

 

 

:x

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Most homerun hitters don't go to opposite field.

 

The good ones can do it on accident. He can't do it if he tries. The point is he doesn't have the physical strenght or the discipline to hit a ball hard on the outside corner and drive it deep.

 

I dont know how you can say he doesnt have the strength for it. He's the strongest guy on the team, upper body strength wise, he just doesnt have the swing or discipline to go the other way.

 

I agree Corey's main problem is discipline---and I would add to that his bat speed needs to improve, or at least the length of his swing (it's just too long & loopy).

 

But there's no way in hell Corey possesses more upper body strength than Derek Lee & ARam. Corey's a pretty strong kid for his size, but he's not in Lee or Ramirez's class strength-wise.

 

I read an article last season that said that Corey has the highest bench press of any Cub. He's ridiculously strong. This isnt even the point however, people dont hit a lot of homeruns because of their strong upper body.

 

Corey benches 350, per Vin Scully. :shock:

[badger1679666666]

I put the entire blame for any loss on Corey. Since Corey hasn't been on the team we have won every game. Coincidence? I think not.

 

And even when they will lose and he's down in AAA, it'll STILL be his fault!

 

:wink:

 

And despite anything he does, he will always have his Corey Defenders no matter what.

 

:wink:

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I put the entire blame for any loss on Corey. Since Corey hasn't been on the team we have won every game. Coincidence? I think not.

 

And even when they will lose and he's down in AAA, it'll STILL be his fault!

 

:wink:

 

By his squandering his ability and not playing all star caliber CF for the Cubs, then he is the result of the losses we receive when he isn't here too!

 

 

:x

 

I sure hope this is sarcasm, because if this post is meant to be taken seriously I'm going to have to put on my hip boots to wade through this crap.

[Chocolate Milk]

I put the entire blame for any loss on Corey. Since Corey hasn't been on the team we have won every game. Coincidence? I think not.

 

And even when they will lose and he's down in AAA, it'll STILL be his fault!

 

:wink:

 

By his squandering his ability and not playing all star caliber CF for the Cubs, then he is the result of the losses we receive when he isn't here too!

 

 

:x

 

I sure hope this is sarcasm, because if this post is meant to be taken seriously I'm going to have to put on my hip boots to wade through this crap.

 

You wouldn't have to wade through the crap if Corey's bad play hadn't forced to me make these comments. That's his fault too, it seems.

[Satch80]

Corey is a liability to the team under his present condition and there is no way to manage a player that is not performing to a standard except to start him at square one with coaching. This is what has been done.

 

It's pretty clear that if it takes that long, looping swing for power then Corey is not a major league power hitter because he will not survive the Ks and BA. He is starting his swing before he has any idea where the ball is going.

I think part of the batting him leadoff strategy was to wean him away from his delusion of power and teach him bat control. It hasn't worked because Corey has not altered his mentality or his approach. Maybe now he will be forced to.

If anything, Baker gave Corey a longer leash than he should have.

 

As for DuBois, he is a butcher in the field, hits for power, can't hit a curve ball and Ks far too much. In time, he may be a DH but he certainly wasn't going to help this team.

 

Dusty is not perfect and can create head scratching of the first order but if you read other team message boards you will find the same complaints.

He's brought a winning attitude to the Cubs, 2 winning seasons and will remain the manager through 2006 for sure. Get over it.

[badger1679666666]

 

As for DuBois, he is a butcher in the field, hits for power, can't hit a curve ball and Ks far too much. In time, he may be a DH but he certainly wasn't going to help this team.

 

 

 

 

Edited so I don't get time away.

 

(Thanks C-Patt20).

Edited July 14, 2005 by badger

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Someone didn't read the end of the Dubois/Patterson demotion thread. Edited July 14, 2005 by Transmogrified Tiger

[badger1679666666]

 

As for DuBois, he is a butcher in the field, hits for power, can't hit a curve ball and Ks far too much. In time, he may be a DH but he certainly wasn't going to help this team.

 

 

*gasp*

 

I'd watch out for the Dubois Gestapo they are just about as relentless as the Corey gestapo.

 

Someone didn't read the end of the Dubois/Patterson demotion thread.

 

link?

 

Edit: Found it. Still not sure exactly what you mean.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

From here (Non-Premium) basically to the end of the thread.

 

Saying that someone is Dusty busting during a debate is fine. That's an action, not a label and it's not insulting. Calling a poster a Dusty Buster because they happen to be making a Dusty critique -- whether or not they do it all the time -- really isn't fine. When you do that, you label a group of posters and lump a lot of folks into one amorphous group. "Dusty buster" is irritating to a number of posters, though it's not offensive like Corey Cartel, or Corey Gestapo, so there hasn't been a crack down. There is a strong preference that folks avoid terms like that.

 

And, for the record, if I see anyone labeling an entire class of posters with a mocking nickname again, said person will get an automatic time away from the site. And it is entirely within the purview of any mod on this site to determine what is mocking and what isn't.

 

I hope that this message is perfectly clear.