World Cup of Baseball: Disaster Waiting to Happen

[Crash]

Listening to Bud Selig talk about the World Cup of Baseball during the homerun derby reminded me how bad an idea the World Cup really is. For what basically amounts to a publicity stunt for the MLB we are going to be risking the best players on our teams.

 

As much as we here on the board get worried about Dusty and pitch counts just think what could happen in this tournament. Does the manager of Venezuela keep Zambrano in for 120+ pitches because he is smoking the team from Japan? Would an American pitching coach know enough about Kerry or Mark's mechnics to know when they are starting to loose it and risking injury? Do Derek or Aramis wear down in September because they had to start their season earlier than they are used to?

 

This world Cup is going to kill one teams chances next year and all so Bud and MLB can waist our time with more exhibitions that don't have anything to do with winning the World Series.

[J.R.]

Yes.

[HerbalK]

I read that there would be pitch count limits, to quell the protests on that count, no pun intended.

[IMarkOutForDubois]

I too read about pitch counts which did sorta quell my skepticism.

 

But if it's supposed to be the new and improved Baseball Olympic Games, you know guys are going to maybe throw that extra inning or run down that fly ball a little harder, risking injuries and physical fatigue even before the season starts.

 

But if they do strictly enforce a pitch count and we send a few actual Major League coaches and trainers to keep guys healthy and mechanically sound, I think we won't hear of more than one or two problems from the Classic.

[johnnyba99]

As far as the pitchers go, you're talking about a maximum of 8 games played by the winning team in the tournament. Each team will have 27 players and must have at least 12 pitchers.

 

I know most everyone on the board disagrees with this, but I like the idea. I personally find it more interesting than interleague play. Just the thought of the Dominican Republic lineup is a scary thing. It may not work out well in the end, but it is an interesting event and one of Bud's better ideas.

[Derwood]

And whichever country wins, then the World Series team with more players from that country gets homefield advantage! Right Bud?

 

But seriously, those dugouts better be big enough for the players AND their agents, as no one is going to let these guys kill themselves preseason.

 

Also, how does this affect the actual spring training camps when the superstars are away playing a tournament? Doesn't this hurt on and off-the-field chemistry?

[LoneStarCubFan]

A guy can get hurt in a spring training game just as easily as he can playing in the World Cup. Ask Joe Borowski, or Ken Griffey.

 

Even if a guy WANTS to throw an extra inning, he's not going to be allowed to.

 

What I do think is interesting, and yesterday was the first time I read this, is that active MLB managers cannot participate in this event. So who manages Team USA? Tommy Lasorda? Soon-to-be-out-of-work Lou Piniella? Dusty?

 

I'm not a Selig fan but this is an outstanding idea. I just hope MLB doesn't find a way to screw it up. If any of the games are played down here I'm going.

[goonys evil twin]

A guy can get hurt in a spring training game just as easily as he can playing in the World Cup. Ask Joe Borowski, or Ken Griffey.

 

Just as easily? No. You don't go all out in spring training games, or at least vets with guaranteed spots don't. Guys will have to work out earlier, and they will wear down sooner. Seasons will be ruined.

 

 

This is a bad idea if you are a fan of a major league baseball team who will have players in the event.

[erik316wttn]

A guy can get hurt in a spring training game just as easily as he can playing in the World Cup. Ask Joe Borowski, or Ken Griffey.

 

Just as easily? No. You don't go all out in spring training games, or at least vets with guaranteed spots don't. Guys will have to work out earlier, and they will wear down sooner. Seasons will be ruined.

 

 

This is a bad idea if you are a fan of a major league baseball team who will have players in the event.

 

I don't see how it's any worse of an idea than NBA players playing in the Olympics. It's the same situation, pretty much.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't see how it's any worse of an idea than NBA players playing in the Olympics. It's the same situation, pretty much.

 

For one, basketball sucks, it doesn't matter, and the players don't try. Pitching deliveries are far different from shooting threes. Also, while a basketball player who performs in the Olympics might wear down over the course of their season, they can afford to take time off during the season since it's so easy to make their playoffs. In baseball, you don't have the luxury of resting your superstars for a month, because it is twice as difficult to make the playoffs. Baseball is all about routine. These guys have had a routine in spring training for years, and now all of a sudden they want the best to get to work earlier, go all out in made up games in the name of BS nationalistic "honor", and then get back to spring training with their pro team who pay the bills.

[LoneStarCubFan]

A guy can get hurt in a spring training game just as easily as he can playing in the World Cup. Ask Joe Borowski, or Ken Griffey.

 

Just as easily? No. You don't go all out in spring training games, or at least vets with guaranteed spots don't. Guys will have to work out earlier, and they will wear down sooner. Seasons will be ruined.

 

 

This is a bad idea if you are a fan of a major league baseball team who will have players in the event.

 

You don't have to go all out to get hurt in ST. Borowski was standing still when he broke his wrist.

 

And Griffey's hamstring exploded because he WAS going all out in ST so your argument is flawed there.

 

This is Chicken Little thinking.

[goonys evil twin]

This is Chicken Little thinking.

 

No, it's a Cubs fan that doesn't give a crap how a team of Americans plays against a team of Dominicans in meaningless March games thinking.

[1908]

No, it's a Cubs fan that doesn't give a crap how a team of Americans plays against a team of Dominicans in meaningless March games thinking.

They're meaningless if MLB is the only form of baseball you enjoy watching. I happen to enjoy the game in many different forms and can't wait for this to start.

[biittner77]

How often are they planning on doing this?

 

The way the pools are set up it's basically a contest between the US and the survivor of the Venezuela/ DR match up.

[erik316wttn]

How often are they planning on doing this?

 

The way the pools are set up it's basically a contest between the US and the survivor of the Venezuela/ DR match up.

 

It would be every 4 years. 2006, then the next one in 2010.

[goonys evil twin]

No, it's a Cubs fan that doesn't give a crap how a team of Americans plays against a team of Dominicans in meaningless March games thinking.

They're meaningless if MLB is the only form of baseball you enjoy watching. I happen to enjoy the game in many different forms and can't wait for this to start.

 

They're meaningless because they're just PR events. I enjoy baseball in many forms. Pick up games in the park, watching little league or high school, and even the occasional college game. But the Cubs are my favorite team, and these will just be glorified spring training exhibition games.

[LoneStarCubFan]

Plan is for next one to be played in 2009 then every four years after that.

[goonys evil twin]

Plan is for next one to be played in 2009 then every four years after that.

 

Any idea why that is? Are they trying to align it with some other event that takes place every 4 years? Is it trying to get out of the same 4 year cycle as the winter Olympics or soccer's world cup?

[dalgreen]

I don't see how it's any worse of an idea than NBA players playing in the Olympics. It's the same situation, pretty much.

 

For one, basketball sucks, it doesn't matter, and the players don't try. Pitching deliveries are far different from shooting threes. Also, while a basketball player who performs in the Olympics might wear down over the course of their season, they can afford to take time off during the season since it's so easy to make their playoffs. In baseball, you don't have the luxury of resting your superstars for a month, because it is twice as difficult to make the playoffs. Baseball is all about routine. These guys have had a routine in spring training for years, and now all of a sudden they want the best to get to work earlier, go all out in made up games in the name of BS nationalistic "honor", and then get back to spring training with their pro team who pay the bills.

 

Basketball doesn't matter? I'll take that as you stating your opinion vs. a statement of fact as the way it was written. Maybe basketball wasn't the best analogy (I do think it was a good point, though), but what about the hockey World Cup that goes on during the summer? I do think people get to worried about injuries, though. I know there are provisions in guys' contracts against riding motorcycles, playing basketball, racquetball, etc, but this event happens only every four years. I don't really care either way, but, to me, the argument should be more that it should be played in November instead of March if one's concerned with messing with offseason routine.

[goonys evil twin]

Basketball doesn't matter? I'll take that as you stating your opinion vs. a statement of fact as the way it was written. Maybe basketball wasn't the best analogy (I do think it was a good point, though), but what about the hockey World Cup that goes on during the summer? I do think people get to worried about injuries, though. I know there are provisions in guys' contracts against riding motorcycles, playing basketball, racquetball, etc, but this event happens only every four years. I don't really care either way, but, to me, the argument should be more that it should be played in November instead of March if one's concerned with messing with offseason routine.

 

I think basketball is very different for several reasons. (and yes I included my opinion about how much of a crappy joke that sport has become since celebrating the individual became the sole purpose of the league 20 years ago).

One, most of the best guys don't even go. Do we want a situation where guys routinely turn down the invite? Two, the fact that half the NBA teams make the playoffs means it's a lot easier to sit your stars for 1, or even 2 full months, just for rest, and still have a great shot at the championship. There is not an equivalent in baseball because MLB is still, even with the wild card, all about the 162 games. You can't just rest guys for 20 games to recover from the grueling preseason schedule. And when the season is over the best and the worst teams are far closer in the standings than in the NBA, where the top 5-8 teams can just coast all season and still end up with a W% over .600. Three, the pitchers are more susceptible to injury than anybody. Guys start throwing in the middle of February, and they don't throw more than a few innings by mid-March. Unless they put 40-60 pitch count limits on these guys, they will have to start throwing in January to get ready. And after the tournament they will have to quickly turnover to a new routine to get ready for the longer outings and long season.

 

And all of this for what? So every four years we can see the same guys we see all season long play in a different format, during what is already one of the most occupied sports months of the year, just so some country can stand up and wave their flag and pretend what just happened mattered, when in all likelihood many of the top players won't even be playing.

 

Going strictly on how poorly MLB runs their own ship at times, I can only assume there will be several bad things coming out of this, including a glut of crappy advertising all over the fields. Insane starting times for games, controversy over who is running things for each team (MLB owners will want a say, national teams will want autonomy). Conflicts of interest between national managers and the professional teams' interests. A lack of willingness to play by some, a lack of readiness to play at their best by some, fatigue by the middle of the regular season by others, injuries and the subsequent bloated guaranteed crappy contract of a player who won't be the same later.

[dalgreen]

I think basketball is very different for several reasons. (and yes I included my opinion about how much of a crappy joke that sport has become since celebrating the individual became the sole purpose of the league 20 years ago).

.

 

=D> =D> I agree completely. But the last two Olympics have been the only times when the NBA's best didn't play. Even when only amateurs played, we had the best college players playing.

 

Back on topic, do you think it would be better from a routine standpoint to have it held in November instead of March?

[goonys evil twin]

I think basketball is very different for several reasons. (and yes I included my opinion about how much of a crappy joke that sport has become since celebrating the individual became the sole purpose of the league 20 years ago).

.

 

=D> =D> I agree completely. But the last two Olympics have been the only times when the NBA's best didn't play. Even when only amateurs played, we had the best college players playing.

 

Back on topic, do you think it would be better from a routine standpoint to have it held in November instead of March?

 

I don't see any value in having the tournament, ever. But if they insist, then yes I'd rather see it in November.

 

I don't want baseball to turn into futbol. I know quite a few Euros who are getting more and more annoyed with the constant 52-week barrage of endless tournaments, friendlies, leagues, championships, cups, etc. and their affect on the team they grew up supporting. At this point in my life, my greatest baseball interest is to simply see the Cubs win the world series. I no longer hold out hope for a miracle comeback into the sport that passed me by. I'm not having kids anytime soon (I think not at least), I have no young relatives close to playing, and I'm not coaching anywhere. I just want to see the freaking Cubs win a world series. And if this ridiculous PR stunt does anything to hinder their chances, I'll be mighty pissed.

 

 

FYI, I think this year's tourny will be quite cool. I bet there will be lots of excitement and a high level of willing participation (minus the Sheffields of the world). And next time might be great as well. But that won't last. These guys know where their bread is buttered. Futbol's world cup works because it started a long long time ago. It would not be nearly as big a success if they started it up last year, or even last decade. It's ingrained in the futbol culture. Maybe in 100 years a baseball world cup will be a good thing, but you can't just create that organic excitement. And I'll be dead before this is a sustained great event.

[1908]

They're meaningless because they're just PR events. ... these will just be glorified spring training exhibition games.

I don't think that's how the players will view these games. I think they'll be played with passion. I think they'll be played to win. I understand your concerns about injuries but I think these players deserve the chance to represent their countries. And the prospect of a Japan, USA, Cuba, Dominica Republic/Venezuela final four has my head spinning.

[jaydee]

They're meaningless because they're just PR events. ... these will just be glorified spring training exhibition games.

I don't think that's how the players will view these games. I think they'll be played with passion. I think they'll be played to win. I understand your concerns about injuries but I think these players deserve the chance to represent their countries. And the prospect of a Japan, USA, Cuba, Dominica Republic/Venezuela final four has my head spinning.

 

I agree with 1908. I am a big Hockey fan, and too most players and a lot of fans the World Championship or World Cup games mean a lot. Do soccer players only care about their club teams? That is what the MLB/NHL/NBA are. Club teams. In many many sports there is also an international stage, and players take pride in representing their country.

 

If a guy gets hurt in these games, I am guessing that he was going to get hurt anyways.... pitcher injuries are wear and tear and are going to happen sooner or later. If its a freak injury like Nomar's this year, then there is nothing you can do about it, it could just as easily of come in ST....

 

And its every 4 years because all World Cup tournaments are every 4 years...

[goonys evil twin]

They're meaningless because they're just PR events. ... these will just be glorified spring training exhibition games.

I don't think that's how the players will view these games. I think they'll be played with passion. I think they'll be played to win. I understand your concerns about injuries but I think these players deserve the chance to represent their countries. And the prospect of a Japan, USA, Cuba, Dominica Republic/Venezuela final four has my head spinning.

 

I agree with 1908. I am a big Hockey fan, and too most players and a lot of fans the World Championship or World Cup games mean a lot. Do soccer players only care about their club teams? That is what the MLB/NHL/NBA are. Club teams. In many many sports there is also an international stage, and players take pride in representing their country.

 

If a guy gets hurt in these games, I am guessing that he was going to get hurt anyways.... pitcher injuries are wear and tear and are going to happen sooner or later. If its a freak injury like Nomar's this year, then there is nothing you can do about it, it could just as easily of come in ST....

 

And its every 4 years because all World Cup tournaments are every 4 years...

 

I don't quite understand what that last line is meant for.

 

I completely disagree with the idea that injuries are going to happen no matter what and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Futbol players care about the World Cup because the World Cup is a huge undertaking that has been around longer than many of the pro leagues. It's part of the futbol culture. These guys dreamed for their entire life to be a part of those teams. It's too late in the pro sports cycle to develop a new world cup and have it become such a great cultural phenomenom.

 

If soccer didn't have it's world cup, and they decided to just invent one today, it would never become what it currently is in reality. Likewise, people comparing this tourny to soccer's world cup have to wake up to reality and realize this will be nothing like that.