Sick of this team

[brfahey]

I am sure this is the frustration talking, but is anyone else sick of this current incarnation of the Cubs. They keep repeating the same losing patterns, game after game, week after week. If trailing in a game, hitters (especially Patterson, Barrett and Walker) refuse to take pitches. Patterson's inability to produce is obvious and pretty well documented (and please no complaints that he isn't a leadoff hitter: he wasn't doing squat hitting down in the order). The emerging poster boys for no concept of an approach at the plate are Barrett and Walker, who can't seem to take a pitch when they should. Come to think about it, what have these two brought to the team in their two years here? Barrett struggles defensively and it seems very few of the starters want him to catch them. Walker's strongest attribute seems to be the go-to-guy for the media (so at last Mark Grace's role is filled). I am hard pressed to remember significant and timely offensive contributions from Walker.

 

Another ongoing problem, the inability of this pitching staff to finish off innings. The newspapers have just picked up on it in the past few days but it's been going on all year: giving up runs with two outs. The Brewers rally on Thursday which finished the Cubs off started with Miller hitting a home run with two out, nobody on and an 0-2 count. 2 or 3 more runs followed. Washington scored almost all their runs with two outs. It's just not one pitcher; it runs through the whole staff. Can't be a coincidence.

 

Another one: Wood's lack of control precedes a home run. He has to be the most overrated pitcher in the game. He had a spectaclular run in late 2003 until Game 7. Before and since, pretty mediocre. His "I feel good" act after getting beat is a tired refrain.

 

When you get right down to it, this team has not hit much, particularly in the clutch in two years. Wood has been far short of a dominating pitcher. The bullpen has been wild and weak at times. The defense less than average. In short, this team plays neither winning nor smart baseball. This inability is the only consistent thing about this team.

 

Time to play the youngsters: Pie, Cedeno and Merton. Say goodbye to Corey and his "potential" and "five tools". Send Walker on to yet another team and media market for him to charm. See if anyone else still thinks Wood is going to be Nolan Ryan and are willing to take on his bloated salary. See if anyone will take Barrett and his less than stellar glove. If we are going to lose let's do it with new guys rather than the bums (some of the team) which have been trotted out in the past two years.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't really understand lumping in Walker with the no approach gang. Todd hasn't done anything the last three games, but he's been a good hitter since coming to the team. And he's one of the rare players on the team to consistently put together solid at bats. That doesn't mean he'll draw 3 or 4 balls every at bat, or never make a first pitch out.

[AcesHigh]

Jeez, you're a little hard on Barrett, too. I don't think he struggles defensively, he's 6th in the NL in runners caught stealing. That's pretty respectable.

 

Offensively, yes, he swings at a lot of pitches. But you'll be hard pressed to find a more productive catcher offensively. In the NL, he's 3rd in total bases, 2nd in RBI, and 1st in HR among catchers. You are fooling yourself if you think Barrett and Walker are the problem.

[goonys evil twin]

Offensively, yes, he swings at a lot of pitches. But you'll be hard pressed to find a more productive catcher offensively. In the NL, he's 3rd in total bases, 2nd in RBI, and 1st in HR among catchers. You are fooling yourself if you think Barrett and Walker are the problem.

 

Hard pressed?

 

Among NL catchers with 150 or more plate appearances, 8 have a higher AVG, 13 have a higher OBP and 1 has a higher SLG.

 

Michael Barrett is a talented athlete, and has pop in his bat. But like many Cubs, he's terribly unrefined and has a terrible approach at the plate. His sub .300 OBP is a huge drag on this offense. It's truely an awful number, and that alone makes it impossible to call him productive. A handful of homeruns doesn't change his season long inability to get on base.

[JC]

Goony just loves Henry Blanco and wants to see him get more playing time.

[AcesHigh]

Offensively, yes, he swings at a lot of pitches. But you'll be hard pressed to find a more productive catcher offensively. In the NL, he's 3rd in total bases, 2nd in RBI, and 1st in HR among catchers. You are fooling yourself if you think Barrett and Walker are the problem.

 

Hard pressed?

 

Among NL catchers with 150 or more plate appearances, 8 have a higher AVG, 13 have a higher OBP and 1 has a higher SLG.

 

Michael Barrett is a talented athlete, and has pop in his bat. But like many Cubs, he's terribly unrefined and has a terrible approach at the plate. His sub .300 OBP is a huge drag on this offense. It's truely an awful number, and that alone makes it impossible to call him productive. A handful of homeruns doesn't change his season long inability to get on base.

You're right, his OBP is bad. I would love to see him take more pitches and get more walks, but that is not the way he hits. He goes after pitches he likes early. If he took more pitches, he might work himself into bad hitters counts and be even less effective.

 

OBP is important, but hitting from the 8 spot, its not the most important thing. It is unlikely he would be hit home by the pitcher/pinch hitter up after him, anyway. If he were up in the order, that would be a different story.

[brfahey]

Jeez, you're a little hard on Barrett, too. I don't think he struggles defensively, he's 6th in the NL in runners caught stealing. That's pretty respectable.

 

Offensively, yes, he swings at a lot of pitches. But you'll be hard pressed to find a more productive catcher offensively. In the NL, he's 3rd in total bases, 2nd in RBI, and 1st in HR among catchers. You are fooling yourself if you think Barrett and Walker are the problem.

 

There's more to defense than throwing guys out stealing. Prior, Z and maddux don't seem to lik pitching to the guy. Why is that?

[AcesHigh]

There's more to defense than throwing guys out stealing. Prior, Z and maddux don't seem to lik pitching to the guy. Why is that?

I don't know if they dislike Barrett, but maybe if they had to choose, they'd throw to Blanco. He's been around longer and knows players, umps, etc. IMO, its the experience factor.

[johnnyba99]

OBP is important, but hitting from the 8 spot, its not the most important thing. It is unlikely he would be hit home by the pitcher/pinch hitter up after him, anyway. If he were up in the order, that would be a different story.

 

This is true on a typical team, however on the current Cubs our starting pitchers are better hitters than several other regulars in the lineup and all are better at the sacrifice bunt than the rest of the team.

[badgercub]

I believe this is only Barrett's second full season of being a catcher. I think his defense will improve and while he doesn't take a lot of pitches, he doesn't strike out a lot either, but will tend to have more GIDP. While he has his faults, I hardly think he is the problem in the lineup.

[BigbadB]

I was sick of this team with Patterson and Perez at the top of the order. I'll be fine again if they stick with Hairston and Walker at the top of the order, and I think the team will start winning again with this important adjustment.

[JC]

I believe this is only Barrett's second full season of being a catcher. I think his defense will improve and while he doesn't take a lot of pitches, he doesn't strike out a lot either, but will tend to have more GIDP. While he has his faults, I hardly think he is the problem in the lineup.

 

 

Barrett entered the league in 1998. He played 22 games at C, 3 at 3B.

1999: 59 C, 66 3B, 2 SS

2000: 28 C, 55 3B

2001: 131 C

2002: 110 C, 6 1B

2003: 68 C

2004: 130 C

 

Thus, he has been primarily a catcher in the majors since 2001.

[goonys evil twin]

I believe this is only Barrett's second full season of being a catcher. I think his defense will improve and while he doesn't take a lot of pitches, he doesn't strike out a lot either, but will tend to have more GIDP. While he has his faults, I hardly think he is the problem in the lineup.

 

He certainly is part of the problem with this lineup. OBP is OBP. It's needed everywhere. Michael has a terrible approach at the plate. He's talented enough that if he adjusts, he should be fine, but he hasn't shown any indications that he will.

 

The "he's settling into the position" excuse is growing thin with MB. He's 28 years old. He played C exclusively in 2001, 2003 and 2004. He played C virtually exclusively in 2002, with just 6 appearances at 1B. Until he shows that he can be more than a first pitch hack who routinely grounds into double plays because of his tendency to swing at pitcher's pitches designed to ground into double plays, then he will remain part of the problem.

[brfahey]

I believe this is only Barrett's second full season of being a catcher. I think his defense will improve and while he doesn't take a lot of pitches, he doesn't strike out a lot either, but will tend to have more GIDP. While he has his faults, I hardly think he is the problem in the lineup.

 

He certainly is part of the problem with this lineup. OBP is OBP. It's needed everywhere. Michael has a terrible approach at the plate. He's talented enough that if he adjusts, he should be fine, but he hasn't shown any indications that he will.

 

The "he's settling into the position" excuse is growing thin with MB. He's 28 years old. He played C exclusively in 2001, 2003 and 2004. He played C virtually exclusively in 2002, with just 6 appearances at 1B. Until he shows that he can be more than a first pitch hack who routinely grounds into double plays because of his tendency to swing at pitcher's pitches designed to ground into double plays, then he will remain part of the problem.

 

Thank you for seeing things dispassionately. The amount of rose-colored glasses wearing in these fora is staggering. It's nice to know that people believe in the Cubs unconditionally, but enough is enough.

[badgercub]

I believe this is only Barrett's second full season of being a catcher. I think his defense will improve and while he doesn't take a lot of pitches, he doesn't strike out a lot either, but will tend to have more GIDP. While he has his faults, I hardly think he is the problem in the lineup.

 

He certainly is part of the problem with this lineup. OBP is OBP. It's needed everywhere. Michael has a terrible approach at the plate. He's talented enough that if he adjusts, he should be fine, but he hasn't shown any indications that he will.

 

The "he's settling into the position" excuse is growing thin with MB. He's 28 years old. He played C exclusively in 2001, 2003 and 2004. He played C virtually exclusively in 2002, with just 6 appearances at 1B. Until he shows that he can be more than a first pitch hack who routinely grounds into double plays because of his tendency to swing at pitcher's pitches designed to ground into double plays, then he will remain part of the problem.

 

Who do you replace him with? Henry Blanco is a fine backup catcher, but do you want his .200 BA in there everyday? Is there any catchers out there that are available that will significantly upgrade the position? It is fine to say we need to replace someone, but is it realistic to say that you are going to be able upgrade? I am not trying to be sarcastic, but who would you replace Barrett with? Soto?

[scs_paradise]

I believe this is only Barrett's second full season of being a catcher. I think his defense will improve and while he doesn't take a lot of pitches, he doesn't strike out a lot either, but will tend to have more GIDP. While he has his faults, I hardly think he is the problem in the lineup.

 

 

Barrett entered the league in 1998. He played 22 games at C, 3 at 3B.

1999: 59 C, 66 3B, 2 SS

2000: 28 C, 55 3B

2001: 131 C

2002: 110 C, 6 1B

2003: 68 C

2004: 130 C

 

Thus, he has been primarily a catcher in the majors since 2001.

 

Yes but frank said he will never be a good catcher.... :x

[badgercub]

I believe this is only Barrett's second full season of being a catcher. I think his defense will improve and while he doesn't take a lot of pitches, he doesn't strike out a lot either, but will tend to have more GIDP. While he has his faults, I hardly think he is the problem in the lineup.

 

He certainly is part of the problem with this lineup. OBP is OBP. It's needed everywhere. Michael has a terrible approach at the plate. He's talented enough that if he adjusts, he should be fine, but he hasn't shown any indications that he will.

 

The "he's settling into the position" excuse is growing thin with MB. He's 28 years old. He played C exclusively in 2001, 2003 and 2004. He played C virtually exclusively in 2002, with just 6 appearances at 1B. Until he shows that he can be more than a first pitch hack who routinely grounds into double plays because of his tendency to swing at pitcher's pitches designed to ground into double plays, then he will remain part of the problem.

 

Thank you for seeing things dispassionately. The amount of rose-colored glasses wearing in these fora is staggering. It's nice to know that people believe in the Cubs unconditionally, but enough is enough.

 

I don't think I had the rose colored glasses on, I clearly mentioned that Barrett tends to ground into too many double plays due to his approach at the plate. Also, most guys have been catching all through the minors, and didn't Barrett come up as a 3rd baseman? I am not making an excuse for his defense, I didn't say it was good, I just said I thought it could improve.

[BigbadB]

I believe this is only Barrett's second full season of being a catcher. I think his defense will improve and while he doesn't take a lot of pitches, he doesn't strike out a lot either, but will tend to have more GIDP. While he has his faults, I hardly think he is the problem in the lineup.

 

He certainly is part of the problem with this lineup. OBP is OBP. It's needed everywhere. Michael has a terrible approach at the plate. He's talented enough that if he adjusts, he should be fine, but he hasn't shown any indications that he will.

 

The "he's settling into the position" excuse is growing thin with MB. He's 28 years old. He played C exclusively in 2001, 2003 and 2004. He played C virtually exclusively in 2002, with just 6 appearances at 1B. Until he shows that he can be more than a first pitch hack who routinely grounds into double plays because of his tendency to swing at pitcher's pitches designed to ground into double plays, then he will remain part of the problem.

 

Thank you for seeing things dispassionately. The amount of rose-colored glasses wearing in these fora is staggering. It's nice to know that people believe in the Cubs unconditionally, but enough is enough.

 

I don't think I had the rose colored glasses on, I clearly mentioned that Barrett tends to ground into too many double plays due to his approach at the plate. Also, most guys have been catching all through the minors, and didn't Barrett come up as a 3rd baseman? I am not making an excuse for his defense, I didn't say it was good, I just said I thought it could improve.

 

Barrett has grounded into 5 double plays this year. 13 all of last year. Neifi Perez, on the other hand, has grounded into 12 double plays already this year. :wink:

[Fred Hornkohl]

Over the last 3 weeks, this team has gone 7-12 and looked extremely bad doing it. They've scored 3.42 R/G while giving up 5.47 R/G. Over a whole season, this projects out to a record of 60-102. Hardly the W/C contenders we like to fancy them as.

 

Here's a breakdown of the offense......

 

06/14 - 07/04  AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Lee            71   15   25    2    2    6   49   11    4   12  0.352  0.387  0.690  1.077
Ramirez        64    8   23    2    0    4   37   14    4   10  0.359  0.406  0.578  0.984
Hairston       29    3    9    2    0    2   17    3    2    5  0.310  0.375  0.586  0.961
Burnitz        61   12   17    4    0    3   30    7   12   10  0.279  0.397  0.492  0.889
Hollandsworth  58    6   19    4    1    2   31    8    2    7  0.328  0.350  0.534  0.884
Dubois         21    3    4    1    0    2   11    2    1    6  0.190  0.261  0.524  0.785
Macias         12    1    3    2    0    0    5    1    0    3  0.250  0.250  0.417  0.667
Walker         56    1   15    3    0    0   18    5    5    8  0.268  0.323  0.321  0.644
Cedeno          6    1    1    1    0    0    2    0    1    0  0.167  0.286  0.333  0.619
Wilson          9    0    1    1    0    0    2    0    2    0  0.111  0.273  0.222  0.495
Patterson      65    6   10    1    2    1   18    3    5   23  0.154  0.214  0.277  0.491
Barrett        50    3    6    2    0    1   11    4    4   10  0.120  0.185  0.220  0.405
Perez          68    5   11    1    0    0   12    3    2    7  0.162  0.197  0.176  0.374
Blanco         17    0    3    0    0    0    3    2    0    3  0.176  0.176  0.176  0.353

CUBS          608   65  148   26    5   21  247   63   44  113  0.243  0.298  0.406  0.705

 

..... and the pitching staff.....

 

06/14 - 07/04   IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR   PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
Dempster       8.7    0    0    0    4    8    0  119  4.15  8.31  0.00  0.46  0.00
Novoa          5.0    3    0    0    5    9    0  102  9.00 16.20  0.00  1.60  0.00
Ohman          4.7    3    1    1    1    7    1   75  1.93 13.50  1.93  0.86  1.93
Prior         11.0    7    3    3    0   10    1  153  0.00  8.18  0.82  0.64  2.45
Wood          11.0    8    4    4    5   15    2  193  4.09 12.27  1.64  1.18  3.27
Williams      16.0    8    6    6    6   11    3  212  3.38  6.19  1.69  0.88  3.38
Hill           5.7    3    3    3    3    9    0  103  4.76 14.29  0.00  1.06  4.76
Wuertz         8.3   12    5    5    7   10    1  180  7.56 10.80  1.08  2.28  5.40
Mitre         23.3   26   17   16   10   12    3  378  3.86  4.63  1.16  1.54  6.17
Zambrano      23.0   25   16   16   13   18    1  402  5.09  7.04  0.39  1.65  6.26
Borowski       2.7    3    2    2    0    4    2   47  0.00 13.50  6.75  1.13  6.75
Rusch         14.0   23   13   11    5    9    3  281  3.21  5.79  1.93  2.00  7.07
Maddux        20.7   30   18   18    6   13    5  343  2.61  5.66  2.18  1.74  7.84
Bartosh        1.0    1    1    1    0    0    1   16  0.00  0.00  9.00  1.00  9.00
Remlinger      5.3    9    6    6    0    7    2   97  0.00 11.81  3.38  1.69 10.13
Wellemeyer     5.7   10    8    8    4    4    4  111  6.35  6.35  6.35  2.47 12.71

CUBS         167.0  172  104  101   69  147   30 2824  3.72  7.92  1.62  1.44  5.44

 

...... so what's not to like ????

[Coach C]

A team BA of .243?? OBP is .298??

 

Good Lord.

[brfahey]

Over the last 3 weeks, this team has gone 7-12 and looked extremely bad doing it. They've scored 3.42 R/G while giving up 5.47 R/G. Over a whole season, this projects out to a record of 60-102. Hardly the W/C contenders we like to fancy them as.

 

Here's a breakdown of the offense......

 

06/14 - 07/04  AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Lee            71   15   25    2    2    6   49   11    4   12  0.352  0.387  0.690  1.077
Ramirez        64    8   23    2    0    4   37   14    4   10  0.359  0.406  0.578  0.984
Hairston       29    3    9    2    0    2   17    3    2    5  0.310  0.375  0.586  0.961
Burnitz        61   12   17    4    0    3   30    7   12   10  0.279  0.397  0.492  0.889
Hollandsworth  58    6   19    4    1    2   31    8    2    7  0.328  0.350  0.534  0.884
Dubois         21    3    4    1    0    2   11    2    1    6  0.190  0.261  0.524  0.785
Macias         12    1    3    2    0    0    5    1    0    3  0.250  0.250  0.417  0.667
Walker         56    1   15    3    0    0   18    5    5    8  0.268  0.323  0.321  0.644
Cedeno          6    1    1    1    0    0    2    0    1    0  0.167  0.286  0.333  0.619
Wilson          9    0    1    1    0    0    2    0    2    0  0.111  0.273  0.222  0.495
Patterson      65    6   10    1    2    1   18    3    5   23  0.154  0.214  0.277  0.491
Barrett        50    3    6    2    0    1   11    4    4   10  0.120  0.185  0.220  0.405
Perez          68    5   11    1    0    0   12    3    2    7  0.162  0.197  0.176  0.374
Blanco         17    0    3    0    0    0    3    2    0    3  0.176  0.176  0.176  0.353

CUBS          608   65  148   26    5   21  247   63   44  113  0.243  0.298  0.406  0.705

 

..... and the pitching staff.....

 

06/14 - 07/04   IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR   PC  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
Dempster       8.7    0    0    0    4    8    0  119  4.15  8.31  0.00  0.46  0.00
Novoa          5.0    3    0    0    5    9    0  102  9.00 16.20  0.00  1.60  0.00
Ohman          4.7    3    1    1    1    7    1   75  1.93 13.50  1.93  0.86  1.93
Prior         11.0    7    3    3    0   10    1  153  0.00  8.18  0.82  0.64  2.45
Wood          11.0    8    4    4    5   15    2  193  4.09 12.27  1.64  1.18  3.27
Williams      16.0    8    6    6    6   11    3  212  3.38  6.19  1.69  0.88  3.38
Hill           5.7    3    3    3    3    9    0  103  4.76 14.29  0.00  1.06  4.76
Wuertz         8.3   12    5    5    7   10    1  180  7.56 10.80  1.08  2.28  5.40
Mitre         23.3   26   17   16   10   12    3  378  3.86  4.63  1.16  1.54  6.17
Zambrano      23.0   25   16   16   13   18    1  402  5.09  7.04  0.39  1.65  6.26
Borowski       2.7    3    2    2    0    4    2   47  0.00 13.50  6.75  1.13  6.75
Rusch         14.0   23   13   11    5    9    3  281  3.21  5.79  1.93  2.00  7.07
Maddux        20.7   30   18   18    6   13    5  343  2.61  5.66  2.18  1.74  7.84
Bartosh        1.0    1    1    1    0    0    1   16  0.00  0.00  9.00  1.00  9.00
Remlinger      5.3    9    6    6    0    7    2   97  0.00 11.81  3.38  1.69 10.13
Wellemeyer     5.7   10    8    8    4    4    4  111  6.35  6.35  6.35  2.47 12.71

CUBS         167.0  172  104  101   69  147   30 2824  3.72  7.92  1.62  1.44  5.44

 

...... so what's not to like ????

 

What's most disturbing about these numbers is the fact that the guys at the bottom of the offensive numbers are regulars (Patterson, Perez and Barrett). With these three and the pitcher, we are giving the other team 12-14 outs (4+ innings) before the game even starts. No wonder the team can't score.

[Fred Hornkohl]

A team BA of .243?? OBP is .298??

 

Good Lord.

 

Or, how about the fact that you've got 7 players on the roster who have hit over .250...... and none of them are catchers. Now who are you gonna play ?

[goonys evil twin]

He certainly is part of the problem with this lineup. OBP is OBP. It's needed everywhere. Michael has a terrible approach at the plate. He's talented enough that if he adjusts, he should be fine, but he hasn't shown any indications that he will.

 

The "he's settling into the position" excuse is growing thin with MB. He's 28 years old. He played C exclusively in 2001, 2003 and 2004. He played C virtually exclusively in 2002, with just 6 appearances at 1B. Until he shows that he can be more than a first pitch hack who routinely grounds into double plays because of his tendency to swing at pitcher's pitches designed to ground into double plays, then he will remain part of the problem.

 

Who do you replace him with? Henry Blanco is a fine backup catcher, but do you want his .200 BA in there everyday? Is there any catchers out there that are available that will significantly upgrade the position? It is fine to say we need to replace someone, but is it realistic to say that you are going to be able upgrade? I am not trying to be sarcastic, but who would you replace Barrett with? Soto?

 

I'm not crying for him to be replaced. I'm just saying that Barrett and his approach add to the problems on this team. Corey is part of the problem, but I'm not begging for him to be replaced either.

 

Some guys who are part of the problem, Neifi, are easily replaced. Others are not, and need to fix things themselves if the team is to be improved.

[Coach C]

A team BA of .243?? OBP is .298??

 

Good Lord.

 

Or, how about the fact that you've got 7 players on the roster who have hit over .250...... and none of them are catchers. Now who are you gonna play ?

 

I have no idea man, but they are deftinaly playing like the Royals are playing.

[YearofDaCubs]

Hendry's lack of moves during free agency + Baker's lack of managerial skills= Cubs Suck