Jason Dubois

[frostwyrm]

Unless he does something impressive very soon I don't think the Jason Dubois bandwagon has much of a future here.

[E.J.]

Unless he does something impressive very soon I don't think the Jason Dubois bandwagon has much of a future here.

 

Dubois has no chance now, at least this year. With Holla finally starting to hit the ball a little bit I think Dubois will be seeing a lot of games from the bench now. I think most of us around here knew that Dubois wouldn't really get much of a chance to show what he's made of. He pretty much had to be an all-star to get a legitimate shot at playing time.

[frostwyrm]

Unless he does something impressive very soon I don't think the Jason Dubois bandwagon has much of a future here.

 

Dubois has no chance now, at least this year. With Holla finally starting to hit the ball a little bit I think Dubois will be seeing a lot of games from the bench now. I think most of us around here knew that Dubois wouldn't really get much of a chance to show what he's made of. He pretty much had to be an all-star to get a legitimate shot at playing time.

He had all of 3 weeks as a starter and now he's probably finished with the Cubs. We just aren't very likely to develop any homegrown everyday position players while Dusty Baker is here. Personally I view all our minor league hitters primarily as trade bait.

[E.J.]

Unless he does something impressive very soon I don't think the Jason Dubois bandwagon has much of a future here.

 

Dubois has no chance now, at least this year. With Holla finally starting to hit the ball a little bit I think Dubois will be seeing a lot of games from the bench now. I think most of us around here knew that Dubois wouldn't really get much of a chance to show what he's made of. He pretty much had to be an all-star to get a legitimate shot at playing time.

He had all of 3 weeks as a starter and now he's probably finished with the Cubs. We just aren't very likely to develop any homegrown everyday position players while Dusty Baker is here. Personally I view all our minor league hitters primarily as trade bait.

 

I just don't understand it. Dusty has no problem using rookie pitchers, but when it comes to rookie hitters they never get much of a chance. I'm hoping Dubois keeps getting some starts every once in a while and gets more pinch hit at-bats, and then is promised a starting corner outfield position next year. I don't want him traded away. We need at least one position player who's making around league minimum next year.

[rocket]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/rocketsaucetd/misskentdutchbandwgnJPG.jpg

[E.J.]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/rocketsaucetd/misskentdutchbandwgnJPG.jpg

 

Where was that 2 months ago??? :wink:

[Uber]

Holy buckets, I forgot about this topic.

 

Also...count me firmly aboard the Dubois BandWGN...but at this point I'm all for whoevers hitting, just win baby.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Dubois strikes out too much.

[IMarkOutForDubois]

As much as I mark out for Dubois playing, at this point to me it's whoever hits the most and the best.

[frostwyrm]

Unless he does something impressive very soon I don't think the Jason Dubois bandwagon has much of a future here.

 

Dubois has no chance now, at least this year. With Holla finally starting to hit the ball a little bit I think Dubois will be seeing a lot of games from the bench now. I think most of us around here knew that Dubois wouldn't really get much of a chance to show what he's made of. He pretty much had to be an all-star to get a legitimate shot at playing time.

He had all of 3 weeks as a starter and now he's probably finished with the Cubs. We just aren't very likely to develop any homegrown everyday position players while Dusty Baker is here. Personally I view all our minor league hitters primarily as trade bait.

 

I just don't understand it. Dusty has no problem using rookie pitchers, but when it comes to rookie hitters they never get much of a chance. I'm hoping Dubois keeps getting some starts every once in a while and gets more pinch hit at-bats, and then is promised a starting corner outfield position next year. I don't want him traded away. We need at least one position player who's making around league minimum next year.

 

I agree with your points, but there's absolutely zero chance that Dusty will declare Dubois the opening day starter for 2006 after having very little exposure to righties on the ML level. If Dubois faces only lefties for the rest of the season he is virtually guaranteed to be traded. He will be 27 next March, has nothing to prove at AAA, and is a valuable bargaining chip who would be far more helpful to the Cubs as trade bait than being used solely vs. lefty pitching. My opinion is that Jason either regains the starting LF job by early August or he's finished as a Cub.

[chicubs]

 

I agree with your points, but there's absolutely zero chance that Dusty will declare Dubois the opening day starter for 2006 after having very little exposure to righties on the ML level. If Dubois faces only lefties for the rest of the season he is virtually guaranteed to be traded. He will be 27 next March, has nothing to prove at AAA, and is a valuable bargaining chip who would be far more helpful to the Cubs as trade bait than being used solely vs. lefty pitching. My opinion is that Jason either regains the starting LF job by early August or he's finished as a Cub.

 

You hit it exactly on the nose. Great post.

 

While I really like Dubois over any other guys right now (including Holla) to be our everyday left fielder, he needs to be exactly that (an everyday player) to stick with the team for the following years. Otherwise, he is a toast, and Hendry/Baker will trade him for a scrubby AA player or Jose Mascias's stepson.

[CUBZ99]

This is his first Major League season, so I think it is a little overdramatic to say that his future with the Cubs under Dusty is over. Hendry has a lot to say over the matter next year and to Dusty's credit Dubois has not been rotting on the bench as of yet this year. Also, there is still the possiblity that Burnitz or Hollandsworth get injured, in which case Dubois would be playing everyday again.

[Tim]

This is his first Major League season, so I think it is a little overdramatic to say that his future with the Cubs under Dusty is over. Hendry has a lot to say over the matter next year and to Dusty's credit Dubois has not been rotting on the bench as of yet this year. Also, there is still the possiblity that Burnitz or Hollandsworth get injured, in which case Dubois would be playing everyday again.

Over the past seven days he has eigtht at bats. He's not rotting, but he's starting to have a little moss growing on those "slower moving parts".

[PackLandVA]

The last 10 games, Burnitz and Holly have been hitting. So it males it less likely to sit one of them in place of Dubois. The outfielder not hitting is CP, and if he comes out, it isn't Dubois that'll get the ABs.

 

The way I see, Holly started and struggles, so BD got his chance. BD did well at first, but started slumping. So Holly gets the chance back and has flourished so far. BD has to be ready for his next shot and capitalize. You gotta play the hot guys when you're in contention.

[frostwyrm]

The last 10 games, Burnitz and Holly have been hitting. So it males it less likely to sit one of them in place of Dubois. The outfielder not hitting is CP, and if he comes out, it isn't Dubois that'll get the ABs.

 

The way I see, Holly started and struggles, so BD got his chance. BD did well at first, but started slumping. So Holly gets the chance back and has flourished so far. BD has to be ready for his next shot and capitalize. You gotta play the hot guys when you're in contention.

 

Dubois only got 3 weeks as a starter. If every rookie who came to the big leagues was expected to get hot within 3 weeks teams would have rosters full of 50 year olds. If Dusty wanted to be consistent he could have given Dubois the same 5 weeks that Hollandsworth got to start. I don't see why a rookie gets less slack than a mediocre 10 year veteran. Also, who's to say Dubois will even get another chance? All Hollandsworth has to do is put up mediocre numbers to keep Jason on the bench and probably run him out of town.

[CubsWin]

I agree with your points, but there's absolutely zero chance that Dusty will declare Dubois the opening day starter for 2006 after having very little exposure to righties on the ML level.

I have no problem with you having that opinion, but where is your evidence for it?

 

I think there is plenty of chance that Dubois could be named a starter in the Cubs OF next season. It comes down to how well he performs. And that is as it should be, isn't it?

 

If you want to win and win now like the Cubs and their fans seem to, then you want to have the players out on the field that are going to give the team its best chance of winning that day. That may not always be the guy with the highest OPS. There are other factors involved.

 

Baker didn't have any problem starting Dubois 17 out of 19 games from May 10th (the day Hollandsworth got demoted) to May 31st, and in that time, Dubois faced mostly right-handed pitching. During that stretch of extended play, Dubois batted .242, walking 3 times and striking out 20 times with 2 HRs and 6 doubles in 62 ABs. Not bad for a rookie, but also nothing that is going to keep Hollandsworth permanently on the bench either. So, when June rolled around, Baker decided to give Holla some more ABs, maybe after hearing reports that Todd had found something while working with Gene Clines, maybe not. He had basically gone 50/50 with the starts between the two of them until one of them got hot. I certainly don't think that Hollandsworth will stay this hot, so what makes you think that Dubois won't get another chance to prove himself worthy of a starting job?

 

It can't be that Baker has a bias against rookies because the evidence doesn't support that either, plus, come '06 Dubois will be a veteran, won't he? :wink:

[PackLandVA]

The last 10 games, Burnitz and Holly have been hitting. So it males it less likely to sit one of them in place of Dubois. The outfielder not hitting is CP, and if he comes out, it isn't Dubois that'll get the ABs.

 

The way I see, Holly started and struggles, so BD got his chance. BD did well at first, but started slumping. So Holly gets the chance back and has flourished so far. BD has to be ready for his next shot and capitalize. You gotta play the hot guys when you're in contention.

 

Dubois only got 3 weeks as a starter. If every rookie who came to the big leagues was expected to get hot within 3 weeks teams would have rosters full of 50 year olds. If Dusty wanted to be consistent he could have given Dubois the same 5 weeks that Hollandsworth got to start. I don't see why a rookie gets less slack than a mediocre 10 year veteran. Also, who's to say Dubois will even get another chance? All Hollandsworth has to do is put up mediocre numbers to keep Jason on the bench and probably run him out of town.

 

I'm not saying all things are equal. But it doesn't have to be equal. If the Cubs were a second-tier team, or if late August or September roll around and they're clearly out, I say you play Dubois to see what he can do. But the Cubs are right there in it. And you have to go with the hot bat. Call it lucky, a hunch, or anything else. But JD's bat was getting quiet and Baker decided to give Holly another shot. Holly responded. You've got to play Holly if he's hitting. I'd love to see the Cubs develope JD into an everyday player. But I'd rather see the team win first. And right now, they're better with TH in the lineup.

[frostwyrm]

I agree with your points, but there's absolutely zero chance that Dusty will declare Dubois the opening day starter for 2006 after having very little exposure to righties on the ML level.

I have no problem with you having that opinion, but where is your evidence for it?

 

I think there is plenty of chance that Dubois could be named a starter in the Cubs OF next season. It comes down to how well he performs. And that is as it should be, isn't it?

 

If you want to win and win now like the Cubs and their fans seem to, then you want to have the players out on the field that are going to give the team its best chance of winning that day. That may not always be the guy with the highest OPS. There are other factors involved.

 

Baker didn't have any problem starting Dubois 17 out of 19 games from May 10th (the day Hollandsworth got demoted) to May 31st, and in that time, Dubois faced mostly right-handed pitching. During that stretch of extended play, Dubois batted .242, walking 3 times and striking out 20 times with 2 HRs and 6 doubles in 62 ABs. Not bad for a rookie, but also nothing that is going to keep Hollandsworth permanently on the bench either. So, when June rolled around, Baker decided to give Holla some more ABs, maybe after hearing reports that Todd had found something while working with Gene Clines, maybe not. He had basically gone 50/50 with the starts between the two of them until one of them got hot. I certainly don't think that Hollandsworth will stay this hot, so what makes you think that Dubois won't get another chance to prove himself worthy of a starting job?

 

It can't be that Baker has a bias against rookies because the evidence doesn't support that either, plus, come '06 Dubois will be a veteran, won't he? :wink:

 

We watched Hollandsworth play 5 weeks of absolutely awful baseball before he got benched. The rookie Dubois started for only 3 weeks, with moderately bad results, then was benched. I don't see how anyone could say Hollandsworth and Dubois got an equal shot. I also think it's totally unreasonable to expect a rookie to get hot within 3 weeks. Also, Hollandsworth put up a.318 OPS in May. You can't possibly believe Dubois would get his starting job back if he put up numbers like that.

[CubsWin]

We watched Hollandsworth play 5 weeks of absolutely awful baseball before he got benched. The rookie Dubois started for only 3 weeks, with moderately bad results, then was benched.

What is your evidence that Dubois got benched on June 1st? Baker continued to start Dubois every other game until the Hollandsworth started the last two. Dubois started June 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th. Then the Cubs had an off-day on the 9th. Todd took his turn on the 10th and did well, so Dusty gave him a shot the next day and he went 3-for-4 with 3 RBIs. Dusty is going with the hot hand and it is paying dividends. But after only sitting two days in a row, you have concluded that Dubois is benched and will never see the light of day again unless Holla completely folds and that that equals more proof that Dusty is a terrible manager. Wow. My head is spinning from the sheer amount of assumptions who have just made. Slow down. It has only been two games.

 

I also think it's totally unreasonable to expect a rookie to get hot within 3 weeks.

Who is saying he was expected to get hot. He was given 17 starts in 19 games. Maybe it was just to give him a chance and see how he responded. Maybe the 19 games were not a predetermined amount. Maybe Clines and Hollandsworth watched a lot of tape of Holla taking his hacks and found a weakness. Holla sat out until he fixed the problem in side sessions and batting practice. Dubois wasn't setting the world on fire so Dusty gave Todd a second chance and threw every other start his way for a while. Todd started making good contact, so Dusty gave him a second start in a row. How is this terrible managing? Remember, Dusty is in the business of winning games not developing players while the team is in the playoff hunt.

 

Also, Hollandsworth put up a.318 OPS in May. You can't possibly believe Dubois would get his starting job back if he put up numbers like that.

You are totally skewing stats and trying to make them fit your point. Yes, he did have a .318 OPS in May. He also had 36 ABs in May, 22 of which came before he was benched. Again, it is highly unlikely that the decision to give Holla a 2nd chance was based on his performance in the 14 ABs he got during the time Dubois was the sole starter. It is far more likely that the decision was based on his performance during batting practice and coaching sessions. If Dubois hit a bad slump, took a couple of weeks to work out the kinks with a coach and then starting hitting the ball much better in practice, I highly doubt that Baker wouldn't give him the same shot he gave Hollandsworth. Why? Because Dusty wants to win ballgames, period.

 

Oh, by the way, Dubois is starting in LF tonight...

[dalgreen]

I agree with your points, but there's absolutely zero chance that Dusty will declare Dubois the opening day starter for 2006 after having very little exposure to righties on the ML level. If Dubois faces only lefties for the rest of the season he is virtually guaranteed to be traded. He will be 27 next March, has nothing to prove at AAA, and is a valuable bargaining chip who would be far more helpful to the Cubs as trade bait than being used solely vs. lefty pitching. My opinion is that Jason either regains the starting LF job by early August or he's finished as a Cub.

 

Your paranoia with Dubois is cracking me up. First, if you want to blame someone for his lack of starts, blame Patterson and Burnitz. You can't have three guys in the lineup who aren't hitting. If Dubois was the only one in the lineup struggling then at least you could "hide" him. Right now, Holla has had the hot bat so he's playing. Yes, it sucks that Dubois wasn't given five weeks to prove himself like Holla was, but that doesn't mean Hendry is ready to trade him. Of course, if we got a stud in return then I'd have no problem, but anything less than that I won't like. Remember, we'll likely have to get a leftfielder and rightfielder next year. By keeping Dubois, we should only need to go after a rightfielder in '06.

[frostwyrm]

Oh, by the way, Dubois is starting in LF tonight...

And he got pulled after 2 at bats.

[dalgreen]

Oh, by the way, Dubois is starting in LF tonight...

And he got pulled after 2 at bats.

 

Sheesh.....

 

He got pulled thanks to Glendon Rusch not being able to get the third out in the inning. Thanks to Glendon, he was pulled with his spot in the order up first. Or maybe you wanted to bring in Borowski for just one hitter?

[treebird]

Or maybe you wanted to bring in Borowski for just one hitter?

 

I would've been pretty okay with that.

 

Although I suppose it's Jason's fault for not showing up the vet by homering twice in his great opportunity.

[CubsWin]

Oh, by the way, Dubois is starting in LF tonight...

And he got pulled after 2 at bats.

 

Sheesh.....

 

He got pulled thanks to Glendon Rusch not being able to get the third out in the inning. Thanks to Glendon, he was pulled with his spot in the order up first. Or maybe you wanted to bring in Borowski for just one hitter?

Thanks, dalgreen.

 

Did you watch the game tonight, frostwyrm? If you did, then you should understand why Dubois was pulled when he was. If you did watch the game and you still made this post, then you are being needlessly argumentative.

 

Dubois started tonight and against a right-hander at that. He is basically starting every other game now. He has not been benched. If the facts don't match your argument, then maybe it time to reevaluate the point you were trying to make.

 

Not everyone can alter the intelligence to support their argument and get away with it. :wink:

[frostwyrm]

Manager Dusty Baker said Todd Hollandsworth didn't start tonight because he didn't ''want to mess up the stroke he has'' with knuckleballer Tim Wakefield on the mound.

 

Baker was perfectly willing to mess up Jason Dubois' stroke, of course. Jun. 12 - 10:27 pm et

Based on this, plus past history, I have to believe Dubois would have been lifted after Wakefield left regardless of the presence or absence of a double switch scenario. This game had nothing to do with Dusty's fairness to the rookie, it is just another example of Dusty coddling one of his pet veterans.

 

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