Bulls 2016-2017 Season

[davell]

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Good God. Get on this GarPax. horsefeathering idiots.

[David]

yes let's trade butler on an amazing contract so that we can get draft picks that we can only hope we might manage to get one piece as valuable as jimmy is on his contract

 

let's just run, not walk, to do this

[davell]

yes let's trade butler on an amazing contract so that we can get draft picks that we can only hope we might manage to get one piece as valuable as jimmy is on his contract

 

We have Jimmy for 2 more years. By all means, let's sit and watch 2 more years of .500 basketball before he bolts and we're a 20 win team.

 

Or.....Maybe you still think this is a contender.

[David]

yes let's trade butler on an amazing contract so that we can get draft picks that we can only hope we might manage to get one piece as valuable as jimmy is on his contract

 

We have Jimmy for 2 more years. By all means, let's sit and watch 2 more years of .500 basketball before he bolts and we're a 20 win team.

 

Or.....Maybe you still think this is a contender.

 

lol i never thought this team was a contender. yeah, i was encouraged by the early season performance (they were blowing out teams frequently and hanging with or beating very good ones) and thought they could be pretty good but they seem to have maxed out at something of a .500ish team this year.

 

there are basically two contenders in the nba and there will be for the foreseeable future. that is how the nba works. it's not baseball. it's not football. i have said that all along. and you really can't win titles without immense luck. you don't build for it. you can build to be very good. we can do that around jimmy. but you can't plan for getting a generational talent, unfortunately. you either happen to be in the right place at the right time in the draft, or you convince them to take your money over some way warmer city (and it's even harder to do this now). no amount of tanking will get you there either (unless your plan is "hey, let's be terrible for as long as it takes for one to show up at the top of the draft and then hopefully we get the pick that year" - not something i'm willing to do as a fan).

 

i just want a good team that i can enjoy watching over the winter and i, unfortunately, go into it knowing it will end up losing in the playoffs barring injuries. you can build around jimmy and get to that.

 

i'm not saying there's literally no package that is worth trading butler for on his contract. but it's a damn high bar and having a 1/3 chance at the number one pick this year (they don't get bonus draft balls for being extra bad) isn't near enough that anyone should be falling all over themselves like you are to send him off.

[davell]

The trade makes more sense to make in the off season. When you KNOW where that picks value is at. But, they're easily the best team set up to trade with and if they're dealing for a star now, its unfortunately still the best option.

 

Yeah, you're going to suck for a couple of years. You're also adding serious assets and can make deals to cut that time down, with the added value of low cost guys in the CBA now.

 

This is a far different situation than the post-Jordan era teams. I'm not positive, but I think Kerr and Longley was all that were dealt from those squads....Pippen was on a sign and trade. The rest left for nothing at all.

 

You're just doing this now(or this off season) to maximize value, because Jimmy is going to want to win. Its not happening in Chicago. Suck now and have building blocks or start from scratch in 2 years and watch it take longer.

[UMFan83]

A few thoughts that combined just go in circles and don't really say anything important:

 

1) this team isn't enjoyable to watch at all (David I know that you arent saying that it is)

2) watching guys that have high ceilings develop seems a lot more exciting than this garbage

3) I don't see how the bulls can get to "exciting team that competes but ultimately wont win a title" status, but I agree that things can change quickly with cap space and smart and wise investments in FA and trades

4) i dont believe in our FO making smart and wise investments in FA and trades

5) i also don't really believe in our FO picking the right guys at the top of the draft

6) i don't believe that our coach can develop high end talent

7) i don't believe our FO will get rid of the coach

8) the organization is fucked regardless

9) but I still think I'd rather see multiple lottery picks try to develop and improve and the potential to have actual assets we can get excited about for the future. It was really fun following the Deng/Gordon/Hinrich bulls because we had all those shitty knicks picks, and Deng was still young enough that he could be used as a centerpiece (from a player standpoint) in a trade for a star and not get laughed out of the room.

[David]

it doesn't matter anyway

 

apparently the celtics value george more highly than butler even though butler is under contract for longer and is better

 

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[Sammy Sofa]

I'd rather see them get some picks and then hope that somehow get a miracle player to go along with it than just watching all but guaranteed mediocrity for the foreseeable future just because Butler is one of those nebulous star players who seems better off being a supporting guy than someone you build around.

 

Regardless, it's the same terrible FO, so they're fucked no matter what.

[David]

A few thoughts that combined just go in circles and don't really say anything important:

 

1) this team isn't enjoyable to watch at all (David I know that you arent saying that it is)

2) watching guys that have high ceilings develop seems a lot more exciting than this garbage

3) I don't see how the bulls can get to "exciting team that competes but ultimately wont win a title" status, but I agree that things can change quickly with cap space and smart and wise investments in FA and trades

4) i dont believe in our FO making smart and wise investments in FA and trades

5) i also don't really believe in our FO picking the right guys at the top of the draft

6) i don't believe that our coach can develop high end talent

7) i don't believe our FO will get rid of the coach

8) the organization is horsefeathers regardless

9) but I still think I'd rather see multiple lottery picks try to develop and improve and the potential to have actual assets we can get excited about for the future. It was really fun following the Deng/Gordon/Hinrich bulls because we had all those horsefeathers knicks picks, and Deng was still young enough that he could be used as a centerpiece (from a player standpoint) in a trade for a star and not get laughed out of the room.

 

i don't particularly distrust them. (i'll say last offseason was a little bizarre...rondo was a really odd guy to roll dice on) they aren't the completely incompetent buffoons they are made out to be in terms of picking out basketball players and assembling a roster. how they have handled coaches, however, has been an embarrassment (even though i think the thibs thing had run its course with the players). i'd be fine with them being fired but i don't think putting good players around jimmy is something that is out of their capability. they've done some really good things and fired up some airballs.

[davell]

it doesn't matter anyway

 

apparently the celtics value george more highly than butler even though butler is under contract for longer and is better

 

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I saw that and was immediately skeptical. George is on the same level as Jimmy is, but I'll be shocked if he isn't a Laker after next year. I still think/hope its leverage.

[UMFan83]

it doesn't matter anyway

 

apparently the celtics value george more highly than butler even though butler is under contract for longer and is better

 

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Butler is better but i could see a case where PG is more desirable for them. George has thrived in a motion based offense that involves a lot of passing and cutting for awhile, which is closer to how Boston's offense is oriented. Jimmy Butler does a lot of holding onto the ball and uses isolation to contribute offensively. He's insanely efficient at it but its probably not as great of a fit for what Boston does. I'm sure they would love to have him, but if George is available also I can see why Boston might prefer to go that route.

 

Also we've been hearing conflicting things all week about how motivated the Bulls really are to trade Jimmy. My guess is they don't want to move him unless they are blown away with an offer, they won't move him just to move him. Which is good. Despite being more favorable to blowing it up, I am not super against keeping Jimmy...its difficult to trade top 10 talent, I get that. I just don't see a lot of options for successfully building around him before he gets disgruntled and asks out or his contract runs out and he bolts in FA.

[davell]

Nick Young can be had for a 2nd. Evidently Brandon Knight can be too, with an expiring. If you're going to try and win a round this year, those aren't bad additions.

[David]

Nick Young can be had for a 2nd. Evidently Brandon Knight can be too, with an expiring. If you're going to try and win a round this year, those aren't bad additions.

 

swaggy p would be fun

[UMFan83]

Nick Young can be had for a 2nd. Evidently Brandon Knight can be too, with an expiring. If you're going to try and win a round this year, those aren't bad additions.

 

swaggy p would be fun

 

yesss, i want fun and excitement, please get him.

[David]

it sucks that we're all stuck with the weird reinsdorfian inner politics with the bulls (the loyalty to former players in terms of management/coaching jobs, the weird clandestine stuff with moles on the roster and coaching staff)

 

thank god we aren't sox fans at least.

[David]

Nick Young can be had for a 2nd. Evidently Brandon Knight can be too, with an expiring. If you're going to try and win a round this year, those aren't bad additions.

 

swaggy p would be fun

 

yesss, i want fun and excitement, please get him.

 

also we were really damn good early on when we somehow went like a month being able to hit 3's.

 

he would help us do that

[SpongeWorthy]

I'm in the blow it up camp but if this FO is allowed to trade Butler that means they're going to steer at least the first couple years of the rebuild which is scary.

[davell]

it sucks that we're all stuck with the weird reinsdorfian inner politics with the bulls (the loyalty to former players in terms of management/coaching jobs, the weird clandestine stuff with moles on the roster and coaching staff)

 

thank god we aren't sox fans at least.

 

It kind of looks like Michael is going to be as bad or worse than Jerry.

[WrigleyField 22]

it doesn't matter anyway

 

apparently the celtics value george more highly than butler even though butler is under contract for longer and is better

 

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Butler is better but i could see a case where PG is more desirable for them. George has thrived in a motion based offense that involves a lot of passing and cutting for awhile, which is closer to how Boston's offense is oriented. Jimmy Butler does a lot of holding onto the ball and uses isolation to contribute offensively. He's insanely efficient at it but its probably not as great of a fit for what Boston does. I'm sure they would love to have him, but if George is available also I can see why Boston might prefer to go that route.

 

Also we've been hearing conflicting things all week about how motivated the Bulls really are to trade Jimmy. My guess is they don't want to move him unless they are blown away with an offer, they won't move him just to move him. Which is good. Despite being more favorable to blowing it up, I am not super against keeping Jimmy...its difficult to trade top 10 talent, I get that. I just don't see a lot of options for successfully building around him before he gets disgruntled and asks out or his contract runs out and he bolts in FA.

Yea theyre prpbably holding out for two lotto picks at least.

 

I'd rather see them roll the dice on building around Jimmy. Yea, they'll likely never truely be a contender, but even if you land a Jimmy replacement with whatever lotto pick you get for him, you still have to add around that guy. Granted you're buying yourself some youth/time, but its not like you get a full 10 year difference between Jimmy and a rookie, as the rookie will have to develop.

 

I guess I just dont see the situation as dire. They have assets like cap space and picks to build around Jimmy. It would be a lot different if those things were already fully leveraged.

[Sammy Sofa]

A Jimmy-centric offense just seem so...limited.

[WrigleyField 22]

A Jimmy-centric offense just seem so...limited.

So are there actual decent pieces that just aren't being utilized because we're running a Jimmy centric offense? Or is he just doing it all cuz the supporting cast sucks?

 

Legitimately asking as I dont find much time to watch games these days. My brother hasn't missed a Bulls game in like 3 years, and he wants to build around Butler, so between his eye test, and the stats, I've fallen on the keep side. Get him better players and Jimmy can operate in a better/more balanced offense.

[Sammy Sofa]

It just seems like little has changed for too long now in how he manages the ball and the clock.

[UMFan83]

Wait so theres a rumor that our best 3 point shooter is being traded to OKC for a 24% 3 point shooter?

 

Is this GarPax's way of tanking without pissing off the corporate sponsors by keeping JB and Wade?

 

Edit: Just a disclaimer that its a rumor nothing confirmed by the big guys

Edited February 23, 2017 by UMFan83

[imb]

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[davell]

Its just one of those things that epitomizes this garbage org......This roster is a mish mash of weird pieces to be thrown together.....You can kind of see how a decent amount of this group could fit well with a slower paced offensive minded scheme. Far from perfect, but you can at least see it as built towards that.....

 

And we literally the opposite offensive minded head coach in place. Fred ain't much. But, as little as I think of him, its GarPaxes fault for giving him this shitbag of pieces he's got to try and fit into what he does well.....