General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

[chopsx9]

So...

 

https://deanblundell.com/rumor-jays-josh-donaldson-caught-cheating-toronto-reporter/

 

Edited: Removed the rumor stuff, felt a little dirty when I woke up this morning. If it's true it'll come out somewhere.

 

I do want to trademark "Cindy Sandberged" as verb though.

[Gmoney08]

Theriot got into a twitter fight with Donaldson about Bellinger.

 

Anybody have screenshots?

 

Also poster Darvish as WS MVP in an Astros uniform, man this guy sucks.

[Banedon]

Theriot got into a twitter fight with Donaldson about Bellinger.

 

Anybody have screenshots?

 

It wasn't much of a fight. Theriot thought Bellinger should've been swinging for a hit rather than a homer...Donaldson said something about Theriot knowing about soft hits...but made it clear he meant it in good fun.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Theriot got into a twitter fight with Donaldson about Bellinger.

 

Anybody have screenshots?

 

It wasn't much of a fight. Theriot thought Bellinger should've been swinging for a hit rather than a homer...Donaldson said something about Theriot knowing about soft hits...but made it clear he meant it in good fun.

[David]

did you guys catch the steve sparks stuff after the game last night?

 

bernstein and goff have been playing it and it's pretty incredible

 

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

[17 Seconds]

vin scully really does suck

 

https://deadspin.com/old-retired-white-man-has-opinion-youd-expect-on-nation-1820158452

[biittner77]

vin scully really does suck

 

https://deadspin.com/old-retired-white-man-has-opinion-youd-expect-on-nation-1820158452

 

He's entitled to his opinion the same as the guys that are kneeling are entitled to theirs.

 

It’s unclear why Scully brought up the military.

 

The author is an actual idiot. Almost everyone that doesn't like the protest says it's disrespectful to the military. horsefeathers, Vin Scully said it in the statement that this guy quoted. How is that unclear?

[Brian707]

 

He's entitled to his opinion the same as the guys that are kneeling are entitled to theirs.

 

?

 

 

He should have just kept his mouth shut. It's not disrespecting the military for one, and two there is nothing wrong with peaceful protest something the military has fought for since this country has been founded.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

vin scully really does suck

 

https://deadspin.com/old-retired-white-man-has-opinion-youd-expect-on-nation-1820158452

 

He's entitled to his opinion the same as the guys that are kneeling are entitled to theirs.

 

He's certainly entitled to his opinion, and we're entitled to call out his [expletive]. Vin often talks about how meaningful his friendship with Jackie Robinson is, yet he says something like that?

[Sammy Sofa]

The author is an actual idiot. Almost everyone that doesn't like the protest says it's disrespectful to the military. horsefeathers, Vin Scully said it in the statement that this guy quoted. How is that unclear?

 

It was obvious sarcasm belittling how dumb an opinion it is.

[biittner77]

 

He's entitled to his opinion the same as the guys that are kneeling are entitled to theirs.

 

?

 

 

He should have just kept his mouth shut. It's not disrespecting the military for one, and two there is nothing wrong with peaceful protest something the military has fought for since this country has been founded.

 

Try telling that to Vin Scully since that's his opinion- one that he shares with a lot of people but not with me. Much like your opinion (that it's not disrespectful) is both shared and opposed by veterans. Among veterans, I don't see where there's anything like a consensus over whether it's disrespectful or not. Consider this though: If Veterans fought for the rights of NFL players to peacefully protest, didn't they also fight for the right of other people to disagree with the time and place of the protest?

[Sammy Sofa]

Consider this though: If Veterans fought for the rights of NFL players to peacefully protest, didn't they also fight for the right of other people to disagree with the time and place of the protest?

 

This is a continual false equivalency; people who are protesting or support the protests criticize or make fun of people on the other side of the issue, but they're by and large not calling for those opposed to be silenced. Too many of the people opposed to the protests want the NFL (or a higher power) to actually punish the players protesting and force them to stop. It's not a matter of two sides simply having different opinions.

[ConstableRabbit]

Maybe it was a dumb idea for the protest vehicle for a generally non-controversial cause to be something that half the country finds deeply offensive -- the same half of the country that would need to be made aware of the issue at the first place. Given that the discussion has been so centered on the aforementioned vehicle -- I'd guess that many don't even know the extent of what's being protested, and it's certainly not changing hearts and minds.

[Sammy Sofa]

Maybe it was a dumb idea for the protest vehicle for a generally non-controversial cause to be something that half the country finds deeply offensive -- the same half of the country that would need to be made aware of the issue at the first place. Given that the discussion has been so centered on the aforementioned vehicle -- I'd guess that many don't even know the extent of what's being protested, and it's certainly not changing hearts and minds.

 

The point is to do something that's going to bring attention, and yes, the actual issues Kaep and co. have done this over HAVE been given more attention because of the stage it's happening on. Just because the willfully false narrative of how it's about "hating America" or "disrespecting the troops" also exists doesn't mean they should give up; it's arguably proof that the protest is horsefeathering working in the first place because it means at the very least discussions/debates/arguments along these lines keep happening all over the country.

 

I mean, the gist of your post seemingly is, "well, people aren't embracing and understanding the protests 100%, so why bother?" The reason they're protesting to begin with is because it's pointing to things that make many Americans uncomfortable because they don't want to see or hear or admit that there's any truth to it. The point isn't to sway a crowd of 100 people to your side; if you get even just 10 of those people listening then it's succeeded. THEY DON'T EVEN NEED BASEBALL AVERAGE-LEVELS OF SUCCESS, PEOPLE.

[ConstableRabbit]

Maybe it was a dumb idea for the protest vehicle for a generally non-controversial cause to be something that half the country finds deeply offensive -- the same half of the country that would need to be made aware of the issue at the first place. Given that the discussion has been so centered on the aforementioned vehicle -- I'd guess that many don't even know the extent of what's being protested, and it's certainly not changing hearts and minds.

 

The point is to do something that's going to bring attention, and yes, the actual issues Kaep and co. have done this over HAVE been given more attention because of the stage it's happening on. Just because the willfully false narrative of how it's about "hating America" or "disrespecting the troops" also exists doesn't mean they should give up; it's arguably proof that the protest is horsefeathering working in the first place because it means at the very least discussions/debates/arguments along these lines keep happening all over the country.

 

I mean, the gist of your post seemingly is, "well, people aren't embracing and understanding the protests 100%, so why bother?" The reason they're protesting to begin with is because it's pointing to things that make many Americans uncomfortable because they don't want to see or hear or admit that there's any truth to it. The point isn't to sway a crowd of 100 people to your side; if you get even just 10 of those people listening then it's succeeded. THEY DON'T EVEN NEED BASEBALL AVERAGE-LEVELS OF SUCCESS, PEOPLE.

Who said anything about 100%?

 

It's a Venn Diagram -- the people who bristle at kneeling are largely the people who they need to convince/make aware. I have no idea whether they've convinced more than 10% of those folks, but the fact that the national conversation is on kneeling and not police brutality is a huge miss that's driven by the protest vehicle.

[Sammy Sofa]

Who said anything about 100%?

 

It's a Venn Diagram -- the people who bristle at kneeling are largely the people who they need to convince/make aware. I have no idea whether they've convinced more than 10% of those folks, but the fact that the national conversation is on kneeling and not police brutality is a huge miss that's driven by the protest vehicle.

 

Again, so much the "disrespecting the military" narrative is willfully created; it's done intentionally to distract from how the players are protesting for very real, much more complicated issues. To blame that on the protests themselves is completely backwards. Americans LOVE twisting and lying about protests, especially when it comes to issues focused on black Americans, so it requires doing something as attention-grabbing as protests on this level to even just get a fraction of the population actually hearing about or talking about why they're protesting. There's ALWAYS going to be a ton of noise when you're trying to say something that a LOT of people intentionally try to not hear. You've got to keep pushing it for the few that do. Create cracks, no matter how small.

 

It's a ridiculously unrealistic expectation to think someone is going to come up with a protest regarding racial issues that's going to be widely embraced and understood. It's always going to be an uphill battle with a TON of pushback...but that's the absolute last reason to give up.

[javy knows my name]

Who said anything about 100%?

 

It's a Venn Diagram -- the people who bristle at kneeling are largely the people who they need to convince/make aware. I have no idea whether they've convinced more than 10% of those folks, but the fact that the national conversation is on kneeling and not police brutality is a huge miss that's driven by the protest vehicle.

 

Again, so much the "disrespecting the military" narrative is willfully created; it's done intentionally to distract from how the players are protesting for very real, much more complicated issues. To blame that on the protests themselves is completely backwards. Americans LOVE twisting and lying about protests, especially when it comes to issues focused on black Americans, so it requires doing something as attention-grabbing as protests on this level to even just get a fraction of the population actually hearing about or talking about why they're protesting. There's ALWAYS going to be a ton of noise when you're trying to say something that a LOT of people intentionally try to not hear. You've got to keep pushing it for the few that do. Create cracks, no matter how small.

 

It's a ridiculously unrealistic expectation to think someone is going to come up with a protest regarding racial issues that's going to be widely embraced and understood. It's always going to be an uphill battle with a TON of pushback...but that's the absolute last reason to give up.

 

This reminds me a lot of the people opposed to the OWS protests who said they agreed with the cause, but it was done poorly. "People are just standing around doing nothing/excuse to skip work," "It's random/uncoordinated," "This isn't convincing anyone otherwise," "Why don't you do something that will actually get a bill passed," etc. There are always going to be reasons to ignore/belittle/criticize the protest, no matter what, how, or where it's being protested. If it gets attention, it's successful. If it gets national attention, it's wildly successful. It doesn't need to change minds to work.

[ConstableRabbit]

Who said anything about 100%?

 

It's a Venn Diagram -- the people who bristle at kneeling are largely the people who they need to convince/make aware. I have no idea whether they've convinced more than 10% of those folks, but the fact that the national conversation is on kneeling and not police brutality is a huge miss that's driven by the protest vehicle.

 

Again, so much the "disrespecting the military" narrative is willfully created; it's done intentionally to distract from how the players are protesting for very real, much more complicated issues. To blame that on the protests themselves is completely backwards. Americans LOVE twisting and lying about protests, especially when it comes to issues focused on black Americans, so it requires doing something as attention-grabbing as protests on this level to even just get a fraction of the population actually hearing about or talking about why they're protesting. There's ALWAYS going to be a ton of noise when you're trying to say something that a LOT of people intentionally try to not hear. You've got to keep pushing it for the few that do. Create cracks, no matter how small.

 

It's a ridiculously unrealistic expectation to think someone is going to come up with a protest regarding racial issues that's going to be widely embraced and understood. It's always going to be an uphill battle with a TON of pushback...but that's the absolute last reason to give up.

It’s a super easy thing to twist when it’s an offensive/disrespectful gesture to so many. I can’t imagine public perception has changed that much on the subject of police brutality. I just wish that they had used a more ironclad vehicle because they could have made a larger impact. Again, the thing they are protesting is not very controversial — I mean, show Vin Scully the Philando Castille video and he’s on the same side. But when you mix that message with a perceived offensive act, credibility erodes. The anthem protests have become inseparable from the message and that’s a big miss.

[17 Seconds]

vin scully really does suck

 

https://deadspin.com/old-retired-white-man-has-opinion-youd-expect-on-nation-1820158452

 

He's entitled to his opinion the same as the guys that are kneeling are entitled to theirs.

 

of course, and i can say his opinion sucks

[javy knows my name]

Who said anything about 100%?

 

It's a Venn Diagram -- the people who bristle at kneeling are largely the people who they need to convince/make aware. I have no idea whether they've convinced more than 10% of those folks, but the fact that the national conversation is on kneeling and not police brutality is a huge miss that's driven by the protest vehicle.

 

Again, so much the "disrespecting the military" narrative is willfully created; it's done intentionally to distract from how the players are protesting for very real, much more complicated issues. To blame that on the protests themselves is completely backwards. Americans LOVE twisting and lying about protests, especially when it comes to issues focused on black Americans, so it requires doing something as attention-grabbing as protests on this level to even just get a fraction of the population actually hearing about or talking about why they're protesting. There's ALWAYS going to be a ton of noise when you're trying to say something that a LOT of people intentionally try to not hear. You've got to keep pushing it for the few that do. Create cracks, no matter how small.

 

It's a ridiculously unrealistic expectation to think someone is going to come up with a protest regarding racial issues that's going to be widely embraced and understood. It's always going to be an uphill battle with a TON of pushback...but that's the absolute last reason to give up.

It’s a super easy thing to twist when it’s an offensive/disrespectful gesture to so many. I can’t imagine public perception has changed that much on the subject of police brutality. I just wish that they had used a more ironclad vehicle because they could have made a larger impact. Again, the thing they are protesting is not very controversial — I mean, show Vin Scully the Philando Castille video and he’s on the same side. But when you mix that message with a perceived offensive act, credibility erodes. The anthem protests have become inseparable from the message and that’s a big miss.

 

It's like you're willfully misunderstanding the point of everything

[Sammy Sofa]

Please point to one...just one...civil rights/racial protest that wasn't perceived as offensive or disrespectful or over the line or anything along those lines.

 

You're basically digging yourself into the hole that inexplicably expects protestors to only protest at a time and in a way and in a place that's most convenient and palatable to the people outside of the protests. That's simply not how these things work.

 

If people refuse to understand what the protests are about (and mark my word, most people are doing just that), then the problem is with them, not the protestors doing a silent, peaceful gesture designed to both bring attention to their protest AND pay respect. The expectation that they could somehow be more clear or less "offensive" is absurd level of expectation that only caters to those that want to bully them into silence.

[ConstableRabbit]

Please point to one...just one...civil rights/racial protest that wasn't perceived as offensive or disrespectful or over the line or anything along those lines.

 

You're basically digging yourself into the hole that inexplicably expects protestors to only protest at a time and in a way and in a place that's most convenient and palatable to the people outside of the protests. That's simply not how these things work.

 

If people refuse to understand what the protests are about (and mark my word, most people are doing just that), then the problem is with them, not the protestors doing a silent, peaceful gesture designed to both bring attention to their protest AND pay respect. The expectation that they could somehow be more clear or less "offensive" is absurd level of expectation that only caters to those that want to bully them into silence.

What? No. I never said that I expect protesters to abide by some sort of code of convenience. That would be beyond foolish. I am of the belief that a protest is ineffective when it doesn't enact change. When articles like the Deadspin one come out with questions like "Why don't these people get it?" or, as you've put it, "the problem is with them," it's clear that messaging could be better.

 

Are you denying that a large portion of the US citizenry thinks that not standing during the national anthem is disrespectful? All of those people are those who you need to convince that police brutality is a major issue. They're literally the same people.

[Sammy Sofa]

What? No. I never said that I expect protesters to abide by some sort of code of convenience. That would be beyond foolish. I am of the belief that a protest is ineffective when it doesn't enact change. When articles like the Deadspin one come out with questions like "Why don't these people get it?" or, as you've put it, "the problem is with them," it's clear that messaging could be better.

 

Again, you're operating under the assumption that most of the people opposed to this simply aren't aware of any of the reasons that the players are actually doing it. That is, to be blunt, complete horse horsefeathers. Things like this and BLM have had so much attention and coverage in recent years that it really does require someone to consciously decide to take this the wrong way. They're not just saying, "oh, this protest also happens to be disrespectful to the troops/veterans." They're effectively saying, "oh, they're doing this to be disrespectful to the troops/veterans."

 

And now can the messaging be better? We just see over and over and over and over again that a huge portion of the country just DOES NOT want to hear about these sorts of things. You've got people peacefully using the platform they have to silently protest AND in a way designed to actually show respect to the people that those opposed to this are lying to themselves in regards to what this is about or trying to do. The problem isn't in the message. The problem is obviously with the people that are the root cause as to why the message even exists in the first damn place.

 

Are you denying that a large portion of the US citizenry thinks that not standing during the national anthem is disrespectful? All of those people are those who you need to convince that police brutality is a major issue. They're literally the same people.

 

Yes, and you have zero chance of reaching them unless you put it right in their face. There's few better options to do so than by using the platform provided by professional sports. Again, there is literally no way a player could protest these issues on the field without it being deemed disrespectful by a massive part of the audience. None. You say the problem is in the delivery, when there is no alternate version that those opposed would find acceptable.

[Sammy Sofa]

Let's say at the start of the second half, before taking the field, an entire team comes out and all the players take a knee for an entire minute. They refuse to take the field until this is accomplished. Or maybe they all just bow their heads and raise a fist in the air. Or they all get down on their knees and put their hands above their head. There's no flag, no anthem, and the reasons are the same. Do you honestly think that the people bothered by the anthem protests wouldn't almost all also be similarly bothered by such a display? Of course they would.

[ConstableRabbit]

I'm not operating under the assumption that most of the people opposed simply aren't aware of the reasons; I'm operating under the assumption that many are aware and are too offended to care -- and that's become the story/national discussion (i.e., whether it's offensive or not). And, due to this, there are definitely people who don't fully know/understand why the protest is happening. The headlines aren't about police brutality, they're about kneeling during the national anthem (and many don't even mention the reasons at all or only vaguely reference "social justice issues"). That's a really stupid/sad outcome for an important message. They're preaching to the choir and pissing off the parishioners, hoping that the sermon resonates. It's silly.

 

If you had a time machine back to the beginning of last season, are you saying that you'd recommend that they choose kneeling during the national anthem as the way forward?