Package Castro and Castillo

[Guest]

Castro's a nice player, but the Cubs have more than enough capable infielders and other players that project higher than he is at right now.

 

Doing it on the field is different than projections.

 

 

Either way, don't be shocked if Castro is not a cub by the trading deadline.

 

I'd be pretty damn shocked.

[sneakypower]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

[ConstableRabbit]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

Let's not go that far...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1931.shtml

 

:D

[Tryptamine]

Castro for Hamels

 

Again, no way in hell. I'm not against trading Castro for the right return, but that's almost certainly not the right return. Way too much risk involved with a pitcher that age, who has reportedly dealt with arm trouble. It just gets even worse when you consider how amazing Castro's deal is.

Dont know about arm trouble. I believe the arm trouble rumors were debunked or at least mostly debunked.

 

Again, this guy is almost exactly the same caliber as Lester with a more team friendly deal that doesnt extend into his elderly years.

 

Hamels missed the first month or so of last season with an arm issue that lingered over the 2013/2014 winter.

[Guest]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

Castro was like the 10th best SS in the ML last year, let's not get carried away smelling farts.

[Guest]

Castro for Hamels

 

Again, no way in hell. I'm not against trading Castro for the right return, but that's almost certainly not the right return. Way too much risk involved with a pitcher that age, who has reportedly dealt with arm trouble. It just gets even worse when you consider how amazing Castro's deal is.

Dont know about arm trouble. I believe the arm trouble rumors were debunked or at least mostly debunked.

 

Again, this guy is almost exactly the same caliber as Lester with a more team friendly deal that doesnt extend into his elderly years.

 

Hamels missed the first month or so of last season with an arm issue that lingered over the 2013/2014 winter.

Yeah, but wasnt that a bicep fatigue issue that didnt linger on after the month he sat out?

[Guest]

Why do people overrate Castro so badly? Its truly incredible.

 

I mean, he's a nice player.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Stannis

[Guest]

Castro's a nice player, but the Cubs have more than enough capable infielders and other players that project higher than he is at right now.

 

Doing it on the field is different than projections.

These players have done it on the field.

[Guest]

Castro is a 3 win SS still young enough to add power to be even better that's getting paid Arb1/Arb2 money until the end of time. Cole Hamels is a 3-4 win starter on the wrong side of 30 with a ton of miles on his arm, a recent injury, and a big contract. The number of years we can be certain that Hamels is better than simply spending the money on someone else(someone else that doesn't require a mega commitment, someone like a Hammel) is about 1, and that is not in the same conversation as being worth Starlin Castro. If you're a pessimist about Baez you can make a Baez alone for Hamels argument and have it make sense, but Hamels for anyone of greater value than that is a complete non-starter. That includes Bryant, Soler, Russell, and most definitely Castro.

[sneakypower]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

Castro was like the 10th best SS in the ML last year, let's not get carried away smelling farts.

he was the best under-27 SS in MLB last year

[Guest]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

Castro was like the 10th best SS in the ML last year, let's not get carried away smelling farts.

he was the best under-27 SS in MLB last year

 

also was the 3rd best hitting SS in MLB

[Guest]

Castro is a 3 win SS still young enough to add power to be even better that's getting paid Arb1/Arb2 money until the end of time. Cole Hamels is a 3-4 win starter on the wrong side of 30 with a ton of miles on his arm, a recent injury, and a big contract. The number of years we can be certain that Hamels is better than simply spending the money on someone else(someone else that doesn't require a mega commitment, someone like a Hammel) is about 1, and that is not in the same conversation as being worth Starlin Castro. If you're a pessimist about Baez you can make a Baez alone for Hamels argument and have it make sense, but Hamels for anyone of greater value than that is a complete non-starter. That includes Bryant, Soler, Russell, and most definitely Castro.

 

You dont win friends with Hammel or similar pitchers, inconsistent pitchers you cant count on for anything. Spending money on a year by year basis on those types of pitchers is what you do if you're trying to lose.

 

The Cubs shouldnt be playing the long term value game with their surplus value, they dhould be looking to make their team a contender now. If they can replace Castro with a 2.5-3 WAR player, they should trade him for a player that is guaranteed to be much better than Travis Wood. Doing that adds immediate wins.

 

And Hamels is just 31 and only signed to 34, lets stop framing the argument in a way that implies a player is either old and bad or not old and good.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Stannis

[Guest]

You dont win friends with Hammel or similar pitchers, inconsistent pitchers you cant count on for anything. Spending money on a year by year basis on those types of pitchers is what you do if you're trying to lose.

 

Oh, OK.

[Guest]

You dont win friends with Hammel or similar pitchers, inconsistent pitchers you cant count on for anything. Spending money on a year by year basis on those types of pitchers is what you do if you're trying to lose.

 

Oh, OK.

Wonderful thoughts from derwood jr.

[Guest]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

Castro was like the 10th best SS in the ML last year, let's not get carried away smelling farts.

he was the best under-27 SS in MLB last year

 

also was the 3rd best hitting SS in MLB

WHY DO YOU HATE ADDISON RUSSELL

[Guest]

You dont win friends with Hammel or similar pitchers, inconsistent pitchers you cant count on for anything. Spending money on a year by year basis on those types of pitchers is what you do if you're trying to lose.

 

Oh, OK.

Wonderful thoughts from derwood jr.

 

You've been replied to with reason on this topic enough times to not warrant actual arguments back, but just about everything you're saying is wrong.

 

I can't wait until we dump Rizzo and get Vogelbach up with the big club, though.

[Guest]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

Castro was like the 10th best SS in the ML last year, let's not get carried away smelling farts.

he was the best under-27 SS in MLB last year

Yes, but what was his BA during full moons on tuesdays?

[Guest]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

Castro was like the 10th best SS in the ML last year, let's not get carried away smelling farts.

he was the best under-27 SS in MLB last year

 

also was the 3rd best hitting SS in MLB

WHY DO YOU HATE ADDISON RUSSELL

 

I don't. I love him. He and Castro can cover the left side of the infield nicely.

[Guest]

You dont win friends with Hammel or similar pitchers, inconsistent pitchers you cant count on for anything. Spending money on a year by year basis on those types of pitchers is what you do if you're trying to lose.

 

Oh, OK.

Wonderful thoughts from derwood jr.

 

You've been replied to with reason on this topic enough times to not warrant actual arguments back, but just about everything you're saying is wrong.

 

I can't wait until we dump Rizzo and get Vogelbach up with the big club, though.

So Vogelbach is Russell in this scenario?

[Guest]

if we're at a point that we're so filled up with gifted offensive players that Castro is deemed expendable, we won't even need pitching anymore

 

five Travis Woods would win 18 games apiece the way you people are talking

Castro was like the 10th best SS in the ML last year, let's not get carried away smelling farts.

he was the best under-27 SS in MLB last year

 

also was the 3rd best hitting SS in MLB

WHY DO YOU HATE ADDISON RUSSELL

 

I don't. I love him. He and Castro can cover the left side of the infield nicely.

Castro loses value at 3b. I think Bryant sticks.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Stannis

[Guest]

It'll probably be Russell at 3B, but if you want to seek out the perfect trade to eek out the extra value from these guys playing SS rather than 3B, go find it and let us know. I'll stick with the more realistic and very good option of just letting them both play for us.

 

Hamels for Castro isn't it, though.

[Guest]

It'll probably be Russell at 3B, but if you want to seek out the perfect trade to eek out the extra value from these guys playing SS rather than 3B, go find it and let us know. I'll stick with the more realistic and very good option of just letting them both play for us.

 

Hamels for Castro isn't it, though.

If Bryant sticks, if Baez pans out, if Alcantara can play SS. Any one of these happens and you are greatly improved, especially for the postseason.

[Guest]

Castro is a 3 win SS still young enough to add power to be even better that's getting paid Arb1/Arb2 money until the end of time. Cole Hamels is a 3-4 win starter on the wrong side of 30 with a ton of miles on his arm, a recent injury, and a big contract. The number of years we can be certain that Hamels is better than simply spending the money on someone else(someone else that doesn't require a mega commitment, someone like a Hammel) is about 1, and that is not in the same conversation as being worth Starlin Castro. If you're a pessimist about Baez you can make a Baez alone for Hamels argument and have it make sense, but Hamels for anyone of greater value than that is a complete non-starter. That includes Bryant, Soler, Russell, and most definitely Castro.

 

You dont win friends with Hammel or similar pitchers, inconsistent pitchers you cant count on for anything. Spending money on a year by year basis on those types of pitchers is what you do if you're trying to lose.

 

The Cubs shouldnt be playing the long term value game with their surplus value, they dhould be looking to make their team a contender now. If they can replace Castro with a 2.5-3 WAR player, they should trade him for a player that is guaranteed to be much better than Travis Wood. Doing that adds immediate wins.

 

And Hamels is just 31 and only signed to 34, lets stop framing the argument in a way that implies a player is either old and bad or not old and good.

 

The gap between 2016-2019 Cole Hamels (the option will be picked up as a condition of a trade) and the Hammel/Feldman types the Cubs have been able to get in free agency for far less than Cole Hamels money is basically nothing. Maybe a bit towards Hamels at the outset and definitely a bit towards the short term FAs at the end. Converting value from hitters to pitchers is bad. Converting it from young hitters to old pitchers is worse. Converting it from young cheap hitters to old expensive pitchers is poison. So if you want to light a bunch of value on fire to get a little better this year, go for it. It's still complete madness.

[Guest]

It'll probably be Russell at 3B, but if you want to seek out the perfect trade to eek out the extra value from these guys playing SS rather than 3B, go find it and let us know. I'll stick with the more realistic and very good option of just letting them both play for us.

 

Hamels for Castro isn't it, though.

If Bryant sticks, if Baez pans out, if Alcantara can play SS. Any one of these happens and you are greatly improved, especially for the postseason.

 

Bryant just might give away enough value defensively at 3B to offset any he loses by playing OF (where he might even be above average based on scouting reports and his athletic ability).

 

And you'd need more than one of those to happen, otherwise who plays 2B? That's without even taking into account that Russell still isn't a sure thing to be a productive Major Leaguer (especially as productive as Castro - who you have locked in for years at a beyond reasonable salary), as safe a prospect as he may be.

[Guest]

Castro is a 3 win SS still young enough to add power to be even better that's getting paid Arb1/Arb2 money until the end of time. Cole Hamels is a 3-4 win starter on the wrong side of 30 with a ton of miles on his arm, a recent injury, and a big contract. The number of years we can be certain that Hamels is better than simply spending the money on someone else(someone else that doesn't require a mega commitment, someone like a Hammel) is about 1, and that is not in the same conversation as being worth Starlin Castro. If you're a pessimist about Baez you can make a Baez alone for Hamels argument and have it make sense, but Hamels for anyone of greater value than that is a complete non-starter. That includes Bryant, Soler, Russell, and most definitely Castro.

 

You dont win friends with Hammel or similar pitchers, inconsistent pitchers you cant count on for anything. Spending money on a year by year basis on those types of pitchers is what you do if you're trying to lose.

 

The Cubs shouldnt be playing the long term value game with their surplus value, they dhould be looking to make their team a contender now. If they can replace Castro with a 2.5-3 WAR player, they should trade him for a player that is guaranteed to be much better than Travis Wood. Doing that adds immediate wins.

 

And Hamels is just 31 and only signed to 34, lets stop framing the argument in a way that implies a player is either old and bad or not old and good.

 

The gap between 2016-2019 Cole Hamels (the option will be picked up as a condition of a trade) and the Hammel/Feldman types the Cubs have been able to get in free agency for far less than Cole Hamels money is basically nothing. Maybe a bit towards Hamels at the outset and definitely a bit towards the short term FAs at the end. Converting value from hitters to pitchers is bad. Converting it from young hitters to old pitchers is worse. Converting it from young cheap hitters to old expensive pitchers is poison. So if you want to light a bunch of value on fire to get a little better this year, go for it. It's still complete madness.

 

Not if you have redundancy, which you seem to be ignoring.

 

And i'd hate to see your projections for Lester. Hamels is more likely to be a 4-5 WAR pitcher than a 3-4 WAR pitcher over a full season. 4-5 WAR is really good, especially considering thats 3-4 more WAR than Wood.