Offseason Rumors & Transactions Thread

[Clem Fandango]

I think Baez will be fine. Not the destroyer of worlds we all hoped he would be, but still good enough that he warrants being a starter

[KingCubsFan]

Almora won't even get a chance to flame out; Baez is the new Patterson/Pie/Vitters.

If Baez flames out he will be the biggest bust I can remember. Way bigger than Paterson. It will be a failure of epic proportions.

 

I don't think he will be a bust in the formal definition like Vitters, I think he kick around the league for several years ala Ronny Cedeno.

Patterson was the #2 prospect in all of baseball. And he actually had some success in the majors. Baez will be just like every other huge power/huge strikeout prospect that has ever existed.

[Guest]

Almora won't even get a chance to flame out; Baez is the new Patterson/Pie/Vitters.

If Baez flames out he will be the biggest bust I can remember. Way bigger than Paterson. It will be a failure of epic proportions.

 

I don't think he will be a bust in the formal definition like Vitters, I think he kick around the league for several years ala Ronny Cedeno.

Patterson was the #2 prospect in all of baseball. And he actually had some success in the majors. Baez will be just like every other huge power/huge strikeout prospect that has ever existed.

I didnt Patterson was ranked that high.

[Sammy Sofa]

Almora won't even get a chance to flame out; Baez is the new Patterson/Pie/Vitters.

If Baez flames out he will be the biggest bust I can remember. Way bigger than Paterson. It will be a failure of epic proportions.

 

I don't think he will be a bust in the formal definition like Vitters, I think he kick around the league for several years ala Ronny Cedeno.

Patterson was the #2 prospect in all of baseball. And he actually had some success in the majors. Baez will be just like every other huge power/huge strikeout prospect that has ever existed.

I didnt Patterson was ranked that high.

 

Patterson was the great hope. Holy [expletive], I thought he was going to be amazing.

[Cubswin11]

Almora won't even get a chance to flame out; Baez is the new Patterson/Pie/Vitters.

If Baez flames out he will be the biggest bust I can remember. Way bigger than Paterson. It will be a failure of epic proportions.

Patterson put up a 4.9 fWAR in 2004 and also has a 2.4 and 3.5 fWAR season. I hope Baez is that level of a bust for us.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Almora won't even get a chance to flame out; Baez is the new Patterson/Pie/Vitters.

If Baez flames out he will be the biggest bust I can remember. Way bigger than Paterson. It will be a failure of epic proportions.

 

I don't think he will be a bust in the formal definition like Vitters, I think he kick around the league for several years ala Ronny Cedeno.

Patterson was the #2 prospect in all of baseball. And he actually had some success in the majors. Baez will be just like every other huge power/huge strikeout prospect that has ever existed.

I didnt Patterson was ranked that high.

 

Patterson was the great hope. Holy [expletive], I thought he was going to be amazing.

 

That whole prospect class.

 

Sure, Dave Kelton or Hee Seop Choi or Bobby Hill or Nic Jackson might bust, but they can't all bust.

[Guest]

Almora won't even get a chance to flame out; Baez is the new Patterson/Pie/Vitters.

If Baez flames out he will be the biggest bust I can remember. Way bigger than Paterson. It will be a failure of epic proportions.

 

I don't think he will be a bust in the formal definition like Vitters, I think he kick around the league for several years ala Ronny Cedeno.

Patterson was the #2 prospect in all of baseball. And he actually had some success in the majors. Baez will be just like every other huge power/huge strikeout prospect that has ever existed.

 

Which is why Baez would be a bigger bust (since Patterson wasn't really that much of a bust).

 

And Baez was in that same tier of prospect.

[Guest]

That whole prospect class.

 

Sure, Dave Kelton or Hee Seop Choi or Bobby Hill or Nic Jackson might bust, but they can't all bust.

 

lol at you attempting to portray that group as remotely comparable.

[Sammy Sofa]

Sure, Dave Kelton or Hee Seop Choi or Bobby Hill or Nic Jackson might bust, but they can't all bust.

 

SILENCE. The current group blows that one out of the water.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That whole prospect class.

 

Sure, Dave Kelton or Hee Seop Choi or Bobby Hill or Nic Jackson might bust, but they can't all bust.

 

lol at you attempting to portray that group as remotely comparable.

 

LOL at an entire generation of fans pretending they *weren't* comparable.

[Guest]

That whole prospect class.

 

Sure, Dave Kelton or Hee Seop Choi or Bobby Hill or Nic Jackson might bust, but they can't all bust.

 

lol at you attempting to portray that group as remotely comparable.

 

LOL at an entire generation of fans pretending they *weren't* comparable.

 

i usually think you are smart and [expletive] with people

 

right now i think you're a actually a god damn moron

[Guest]

patterson was probably overrated when ranked that highly given his performance outside of his one amazing season in lansing (not to say he was terrible, but he didn't set the world on fire, like you'd expect from a top 2 in the game prospect). it was almost all about tools and one very good season prospect evaluation is probably a good amount further along now, 15 years or so later.

 

that aside, there are 4 prospects/just barely graduated guys in that tier. you can bring up prior as a guy in that tier from the early 2000s group, and you'd be right, but he wasn't a bust. he was amazing and unfortunately succumbed to the nearly inevitable fate of pitchers much too early.

 

really, even cpatt wasn't even a bust. he might have been sabotaged by shitty development/coaching...who knows, but he was a decent player.

 

edit - all of this is not even to mention that that clearly inferior (but still very good) farm system yielded a lot of success in its own right.

[Guest]

I will insist until I die that Choi would have been a very good player had he not broken his wrist at a critical development point.

[Guest]

and if you want to include juan cruz in that tier [expletive] you

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Maybe I'm an idiot who is screwing with people?

 

Sure, it was a special combination of incompetence and bad luck that caused that generation of prospects to flame out so hard, but every guy I listed was No. 68 or higher on the 2002 BA list.

 

And the kneejerk reaction is always that prospect lists were totally dumb back then and are super-smart now, but here's some guys who have been top 100 since 2012:

 

32. Brett Jackson

64. Matt Szczur

83. Arodys Vizcaino

100. Christian Villanueva

 

Pierce Johnson's about one bad season from joining that list as well.

 

And yes, I know, Theo Epstein is a magical prospect whisperer so obviously it's different.

 

Here are some guys who were top-100 for Boston from 2009-2011:

 

17. Lars Anderson

21. Ryan Westmoreland *

24. Casey Kelley

67. Anthony Ranaudo

83. Michael Bowden

 

 

The early 2000s Cubs system was completely amazeballs awesome, and it busted out. That doesn't mean that this one will bust out, but it's revisionist history to act like it wasn't the best system in baseball for a three-year period.

[Guest]

oh and don't you dare question me including the inexplicably underrated jorge soler in that tier

[Guest]

Maybe I'm an idiot who is screwing with people?

 

Sure, it was a special combination of incompetence and bad luck that caused that generation of prospects to flame out so hard, but every guy I listed was No. 68 or higher on the 2002 BA list.

 

And the kneejerk reaction is always that prospect lists were totally dumb back then and are super-smart now, but here's some guys who have been top 100 since 2012:

 

32. Brett Jackson

64. Matt Szczur

83. Arodys Vizcaino

100. Christian Villanueva

 

Pierce Johnson's about one bad season from joining that list as well.

 

And yes, I know, Theo Epstein is a magical prospect whisperer so obviously it's different.

 

Here are some guys who were top-100 for Boston from 2009-2011:

 

17. Lars Anderson

21. Ryan Westmoreland *

24. Casey Kelley

67. Anthony Ranaudo

83. Michael Bowden

 

 

The early 2000s Cubs system was completely amazeballs awesome, and it busted out. That doesn't mean that this one will bust out, but it's revisionist history to act like it wasn't the best system in baseball for a three-year period.

Last I remember, every system that was ranked #1 by BA since 2000 (including the Cubs) had a realistic shot at the world series.

 

It's not a bad thing.

 

also, f pitchers.

[Guest]

Maybe I'm an idiot who is screwing with people?

 

Sure, it was a special combination of incompetence and bad luck that caused that generation of prospects to flame out so hard, but every guy I listed was No. 68 or higher on the 2002 BA list.

 

And the kneejerk reaction is always that prospect lists were totally dumb back then and are super-smart now, but here's some guys who have been top 100 since 2012:

 

32. Brett Jackson

64. Matt Szczur

83. Arodys Vizcaino

100. Christian Villanueva

 

Pierce Johnson's about one bad season from joining that list as well.

 

And yes, I know, Theo Epstein is a magical prospect whisperer so obviously it's different.

 

Here are some guys who were top-100 for Boston from 2009-2011:

 

17. Lars Anderson

21. Ryan Westmoreland *

24. Casey Kelley

67. Anthony Ranaudo

83. Michael Bowden

 

 

The early 2000s Cubs system was completely amazeballs awesome, and it busted out. That doesn't mean that this one will bust out, but it's revisionist history to act like it wasn't the best system in baseball for a three-year period.

 

this team has two top 5 in the game prospects in its system right now and just graduated one and another that should be right around there (i'd almost argue that he should be in there if it weren't for two guys we already have taking 2/5 spots). i'm pretty sure that's essentially unheard of ever. especially with the quality behind that absurdity at the top.

 

 

also that generation of prospects didn't "flame out so hard" ffs

Edited February 10, 2015 by David

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's not a bad thing.

 

It's definitely not a bad thing.

[Cubswin11]

Angel Guzman flaming out always bothers me more than it should for some reason, really wanted him to hit

[Hairyducked Idiot]

this team has two top 5 in the game prospects in its system right now and just graduated one and another that should be right around there

 

Corey Patterson, Juan Cruz, Hee Seop Choi, Mark Prior.

[Guest]

this team has two top 5 in the game prospects in its system right now and just graduated one and another that should be right around there

 

Corey Patterson, Juan Cruz, Hee Seop Choi, Mark Prior.

Did you miss the f pitchers part?

[Sammy Sofa]

Angel Guzman flaming out always bothers me more than it should for some reason, really wanted him to hit

 

Same here. I held out a ton of hope for him.

[Sammy Sofa]

this team has two top 5 in the game prospects in its system right now and just graduated one and another that should be right around there

 

Corey Patterson, Juan Cruz, Hee Seop Choi, Mark Prior.

Did you miss the f pitchers part?

 

And what am I missing with him continually bringing up Choi? Who was ranking Choi like David is talking about? Didn't he top out in the 20's?

[Guest]

Patterson got Baylor'd

Prior got Dusty'd

Guzman was made of glass

Choi broke his wrist

 

I don't really have a point here. I'm more hopeful that this group has better coaching, but this thread is bringing me down, man