javi baez deep concern and probably giving hope up thread

[Sammy Sofa]

DiamondMind's Seinfeld opinions = George in this clip:

 

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

http://i.imgur.com/T3l4lP1.gif

[DiamondMind]

weird show for weird people

[minnesotacubsfan]

PIE

[Sammy Sofa]

Is delicious!

[treebird]

http://regressing.deadspin.com/is-javier-baezs-rocket-powered-swing-built-to-last-1630201369/+kylenw

 

lots of good stuff. hopefully he has a lucky contact streak the rest of the year and we can trick some dumb team into trading something good for him.

[Guest]

That's really interesting.

 

I would've been curious to see him flesh out the downside of correcting the hammer angle a bit more. Intuitively it makes sense that some power would be lost, but how much? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept here, but I'm struggling to see why the angle would be the source of so much of his power compared to the actual strength of his wrists. Other parts of the article seem to indicate that he's fighting himself in parts of the swing, like the extended lead arm before contact, and the bat angle seems to me like more of the same.

[Guest]

That's really interesting.

 

I would've been curious to see him flesh out the downside of correcting the hammer angle a bit more. Intuitively it makes sense that some power would be lost, but how much? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept here, but I'm struggling to see why the angle would be the source of so much of his power compared to the actual strength of his wrists. Other parts of the article seem to indicate that he's fighting himself in parts of the swing, like the extended lead arm before contact, and the bat angle seems to me like more of the same.

It's the buggy whip motion that creates the speed that create the power. It's a really good article that explains why his swing is so out of control. Hopefully somebody in management read it too

[UMFan83]

That's really interesting.

 

I would've been curious to see him flesh out the downside of correcting the hammer angle a bit more. Intuitively it makes sense that some power would be lost, but how much? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept here, but I'm struggling to see why the angle would be the source of so much of his power compared to the actual strength of his wrists. Other parts of the article seem to indicate that he's fighting himself in parts of the swing, like the extended lead arm before contact, and the bat angle seems to me like more of the same.

It's the buggy whip motion that creates the speed that create the power. It's a really good article that explains why his swing is so out of control. Hopefully somebody in management read it too

 

I would have to believe they know about this already. Or at least I hope so.

[Elrhino]

Remember when it was the meatballs that were going to give up on Javy after his first 6 weeks as a 21 year old in the majors? And the smart fans were going to point and laugh at them for being meatballs?

[Sammy Sofa]

Who has given up on him?

[Sammy Sofa]

So Baez is completely made of sadness right now.

 

Let's get our braintrust together and make people like me feel better about how bad he's doing.

 

Yes, he's looked horrible at every new level. Yes, jumping to the bigs is completely different than anything he's faced so far. How many PA did he have in the various other levels before he started turning it around?

 

David brought up how he's been having better PA's lately, but it seemed like that was the case about three weeks ago as well (seemingly taking more pitches, having better, longer AB's) and then he bottomed out to an even new bottom. What is happening now that's reason for optimism?

 

Obviously he and Rizzo are very different hitters, though Rizzo bounced back to the minors for a bit after his horrible cup of poop-coffee with the Padres. Any chance the Cubs try that again with Baez? Would there be any real point to it besides just trying to prop him up by having him annihilate AAA after such a frustrating brief stint in the majors?

 

I mean, this what we wanted; we wanted him up here this year to work through the pain as much as possible. I guess with just 6 games to go we'd be seeing some real hints that he was starting to figure it out, but he arguably looks even worse in a lot of ways than when he first got here.

 

Please allay my fears.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Sammy Sofa

[Guest]

So Baez is completely made of sadness right now.

 

Let's get our braintrust together and make people like me feel better about how bad he's doing.

 

Yes, he's looked horrible at every new level. Yes, jumping to the bigs is completely different than anything he's faced so far. How many PA did he have in the various other levels before he started turning it around?

 

David brought up how he's been having better PA's lately, but it seemed like that was the case about three weeks ago as well (seemingly taking more pitches, having better, longer AB's) and then he bottomed out to an even new bottom. What is happening now that's reason for optimism?

 

Obviously he and Rizzo are very different hitters, though Rizzo bounced back to the minors for a bit after his horrible cup of poop-coffee with the Padres. Any chance the Cubs try that again with Baez? Would there be any real point to it besides just trying to prop him up by having him annihilate AAA after such a frustrating brief stint in the majors?

 

I mean, this what we wanted; we wanted him up here this year to work through the pain as much as possible. I guess with just 6 games to go we'd be seeing some real hints that he was starting to figure it out, but he arguably looks even worse in a lot of ways than when he first got here.

 

I figured at least one of the core group would end up busting for whatever reason, but it still sucks to watch. Please allay my fears.

 

It took him about 6-7 weeks to even hint at turning the corner at Iowa, IIRC.

 

He's a long way from bust, FFS. He is a twenty one year old middle infielder with oh my god power.

 

What made you do this 180 after you were all about watching him be terrible at everything?

[Sammy Sofa]

What 180? I thought that was a totally reasonable, non-panicky post legitimately asking for the smarter baseball people here to explain why I should be cool with this.

 

And I wasn't saying that he's definitely busting; just that I figured at least one of them would and it could very well turn out to be Baez, but even "knowing" that AND wanting him to work through this doesn't make it any less awful to watch/read about. I'll remove that part since apparently it made you ignore the rest.

 

Christ, a guy just tries to ask some questions and wants some reassuring.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Sammy Sofa

[Guest]

What 180? I thought that was a totally reasonable, non-panicky post. I wasn't saying that he's definitely busting; just that I figured at least one of them would and it could very well turn out to be Baez, but even "knowing" that AND wanting him to work through this doesn't make it any less awful to watch/read about.

 

Christ, a guy just tries to ask some questions and wants some reassuring.

 

 

To me it seems like a 180 because you were practically shaming people for being worried like 2-3 weeks ago. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Sammy Sofa]

What 180? I thought that was a totally reasonable, non-panicky post. I wasn't saying that he's definitely busting; just that I figured at least one of them would and it could very well turn out to be Baez, but even "knowing" that AND wanting him to work through this doesn't make it any less awful to watch/read about.

 

Christ, a guy just tries to ask some questions and wants some reassuring.

 

 

To me it seems like a 180 because you were practically shaming people for being worried like 2-3 weeks ago. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I was. I also figured by the last week of the season we'd be seeing at least faint glimpses of a turnaround instead of him looking more clueless/frustrated than ever. I figure there probably are and I'm just not seeing them and people paying more/better attention can point them out to me.

 

This is seriously just a "hey, there's a lot smart baseball people here, please pass some knowledge my way"-request and not some effort to bash the Cubs.

[Guest]

What 180? I thought that was a totally reasonable, non-panicky post. I wasn't saying that he's definitely busting; just that I figured at least one of them would and it could very well turn out to be Baez, but even "knowing" that AND wanting him to work through this doesn't make it any less awful to watch/read about.

 

Christ, a guy just tries to ask some questions and wants some reassuring.

 

 

To me it seems like a 180 because you were practically shaming people for being worried like 2-3 weeks ago. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I was. I also figured by the last week of the season we'd be seeing at least faint glimpses of a turnaround instead of him looking more clueless/frustrated than ever. I figure there probably are and I'm just not seeing them and people paying more/better attention can point them out to me.

 

This is seriously just a "hey, there's a lot smart baseball people here, please pass some knowledge my way"-request and not some effort to bash the Cubs.

 

Outside of his increasing BB rate and the fact that he has hit a lot of HR for a young kid who plays SS/2B, there isn't that much, as far as I can tell, other than, "He's struggled just about this badly before when advancing levels and has recovered," FWIW.

 

I'm not sure why he UZR hasn't liked his defense much, but I wouldn't expect that long term.

 

His swing has looked a little quieter lately, FWIW.

Edited September 20, 2014 by David

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

uzr is stupid

[Sammy Sofa]

Which is what I had seen a lot of people saying he'd have to change (his swing). I had no idea he was maybe working on that now, so that maybe explains a lot.

 

I'm honestly not seeing the increasing walk rate, but I also suck at math. BR has him at 8/47 BB/SO for the last 4 weeks, 5/23 for the last 2 and 2/10 the last week.

 

Going back to the Rizzo thing, what do people think of the Cubs having him start his career here in the minors after his time with the Padres? Is that in any way relative to a possible similar decision with Baez or is it essentially a lock he's not going back barring injury rehab or prolonged suckage well into next season?

[Gilby]

He's got a 40% K rate and a sub 60% contact rate while hitting very few line drives and a ton of infield pop ups. He's been every bit as bad as his line indicates. However, he was hitting .165 on May 16th this season in AAA (opening day was April 3) with a K% probably somewhere in the mid 30s%. I think if you were scared of his bust potential before he was called up (which is completely understandable) then it's fine to be worried now, but his time in the majors so far shouldn't change your perception of him too much. The amount of K's is rare, but so is the upside of a legitimate middle infielder who can hit 40 bombs. I'm far from Javy's biggest fan as I had him a clear third behind Russell and Castro as far as who I valued most, but I'm not real worked up about his bad start either.

 

Rizzo needed time in Iowa partially because they completely re-worked his swing and placement of hands (obviously they were also awful in 2012 and didn't need Rizzo, which is hopefully not the case in 2015). Baez may need work on his swing, but his changes are probably more about having less movement, something I'm not sure he needs to practice at Iowa. He's traditionally a slow starter at a level, and he doesn't seem like the type who needs a confidence boost, so I'm assuming he'll be up from opening day 2015 as not to delay the adjustment period.

[Sammy Sofa]

Rizzo needed time in Iowa partially because they completely re-worked his swing and placement of hands (obviously they were also awful in 2012 and didn't need Rizzo, which is hopefully not the case in 2015). Baez may need work on his swing, but his changes are probably more about having less movement, something I'm not sure he needs to practice at Iowa. He's traditionally a slow starter at a level, and he doesn't seem like the type who needs a confidence boost, so I'm assuming he'll be up from opening day 2015 as not to delay the adjustment period.

 

That's the kinda stuff I'm looking for because I have no idea. I really appreciate it.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Well, I said anything under 40% wouldn't bother me, but he couldn't even keep it that low, so you can put me down for "moderately concerned."

[treebird]

it would be very convenient if addison could get off to a hot start next year and be ready to come up around the same time that we decide javi needs to build up his confidence in iowa

[Guest]

it would be very convenient if addison could get off to a hot start next year and be ready to come up around the same time that we decide javi needs to build up his confidence in iowa

 

javy is never going to have that problem

[Guest]

No one wants to see how the sausage gets made.