Week 13 - Bears (6-5) at Minnesota (2-8-1) - 12:00 PM, FOX

[Guest]

So I expect us to win the next 3 and lose in excruciating fashion to our arch rival.

[UMFan83]

So I expect us to win the next 3 and lose in excruciating fashion to our arch rival.

 

even if we win our next 3, Detroit probably has to lose 2 of their next 3 to make it interesting because I don't see Detroit losing to Minnesota in week 17.

[cubbyvirus00]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

I'm starting to question if Emery knows how to draft a defensive player. In his career I don't believe he's been responsible for drafting a quality defensive player

[minnesotacubsfan]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

[UMFan83]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

I'm starting to question if Emery knows how to draft a defensive player. In his career I don't believe he's been responsible for drafting a quality defensive player

 

Well he's had 2 drafts and drafted 7 defensive players, 4 in the top 5 rounds. Shea has been a spectacular bust relative to the position he was drafted. Wasting a 3rd round pick on a safety who couldn't play a snap for the Bears even though they have terrible safeties was a disaster as well. But Bostic looks like a solid pick, taunting penalties aside. Isaiah Frey has been decent as a 6th round pick thrust into significant action this year. I'm not sure about Khaseem Greene yet but he's starting due to injury and has been passible from what I've seen, don't remember how he's been graded this year. The other 2 are late round picks Cornellis Washington (6th) and Greg McCoy (7th). McCoy isn't on the roster anymore, and Washington has played sparingly.

 

So in 2 drafts he's had 2 pretty big failures and has drafted 1 defensive player that looks to be a starter. Not good at all but again, its 2 drafts so I'm not ready to call him a failure at drafting defensive picks just yet.

[WrigleyField 22]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

Is "wouldn't be any worse" really a glowing recommendation of making a switch to the 3-4? Either way you slice it, turnover is needed. 3-4, 4-3, 46, just get the right players in there. Okay maybe we don't want the 46 unless we're facing AP with Ponder at Q, but you get the idea. That being said, Emery has more experience scouting for a 3-4, so if he thinks he would do better finding a fit for that defense, lets go for it.

[UMFan83]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

 

I still have no idea how the Bears do not have one quality safety on the roster after spending 4 top 4 round picks on safeties and one in the 6th round over the last 6 drafts. (Hardin, Conte, Steltz, Wright, Afalava)

Edited December 2, 2013 by UMFan83

[WrigleyField 22]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

I'm starting to question if Emery knows how to draft a defensive player. In his career I don't believe he's been responsible for drafting a quality defensive player

 

Well he's had 2 drafts and drafted 7 defensive players, 4 in the top 5 rounds. Shea has been a spectacular bust relative to the position he was drafted. Wasting a 3rd round pick on a safety who couldn't play a snap for the Bears even though they have terrible safeties was a disaster as well. But Bostic looks like a solid pick, taunting penalties aside. Isaiah Frey has been decent as a 6th round pick thrust into significant action this year. I'm not sure about Khaseem Greene yet but he's starting due to injury and has been passible from what I've seen, don't remember how he's been graded this year. The other 2 are late round picks Cornellis Washington (6th) and Greg McCoy (7th). McCoy isn't on the roster anymore, and Washington has played sparingly.

 

So in 2 drafts he's had 2 pretty big failures and has drafted 1 defensive player that looks to be a starter. Not good at all but again, its 2 drafts so I'm not ready to call him a failure at drafting defensive picks just yet.

I have to say you are nailing it in this thread.

 

Just going back on recollection and attempting to correlate his role as scouting director and such though, I do believe his best hits were on offense. Then again, I think the record just flat out favors picking more offensive players as well. Do think he has another 1st round DL bust from KC as well (assuming you allow a fair amount of the credit to go to him in his role as scouting director).

[minnesotacubsfan]

Greene and Bostic look to stay, but why is it we only seem to draft good LBs?

[rawaction]

The 2011 Giants were 6-6 after 12 weeks. Moved to .500 after a heartbreaking loss on a last second Packers FG. They the won at Dallas the next week and beat Dallas in Week 17 to get to the playoffs. The rest is history. Bad news is they got in at 9-7. 9-7 isn't likely to do the Bears any good.

 

Problem with this analogy: the Giants had a D and ??'s on O. We can't stop anyone

Giants were 9th in offense and 25th in defense.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

Is "wouldn't be any worse" really a glowing recommendation of making a switch to the 3-4? Either way you slice it, turnover is needed. 3-4, 4-3, 46, just get the right players in there. Okay maybe we don't want the 46 unless we're facing AP with Ponder at Q, but you get the idea. That being said, Emery has more experience scouting for a 3-4, so if he thinks he would do better finding a fit for that defense, lets go for it.

 

I'm not making an argument for a 3-4, just one against this d coaching staff

[Splendid Splinter]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

 

 

This is the offseason to do it if they wanna go that route. I think 7 of 11 defensive starters are FAs this offseason. Guys who are still here (Peppers if he isn't cut/Briggs/Paea) can probably switch to a 3-4 pretty easily I imagine?

[WrigleyField 22]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

 

I still have no idea how the Bears do not have one quality safety on the roster after spending 6 top 4 round picks on safeties over the last 6 drafts.

One chalked up to injury. Another two looked a lot better about 7 months ago, even if they weren't top tier guys. Honestly struggling to remember who else we've picked going back that far.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

 

I still have no idea how the Bears do not have one quality safety on the roster after spending 4 top 4 round picks on safeties and one in the 6th round over the last 6 drafts. (Hardin, Conte, Steltz, Wright, Afalava)

 

That's the thing tho, Conte looked like he was on the rise last year

[rawaction]

Injury to insult.

 

"@BradBiggs: #Bears RG Kyle Long left the locker room wearing a walking boot on his right ankle. He said he was fine."

[Guest]

does mike brown have kids old enough yet?

 

i miss mike brown.

[WrigleyField 22]

Injury to insult.

 

"@BradBiggs: #Bears RG Kyle Long left the locker room wearing a walking boot on his right ankle. He said he was fine."

My first thought is I've given up on this year anyways, and Long has shown a lot so whatever. My second thought is Carimi looking like a good pick and then getting injured and never looking the same.

 

pls be okay, and don't rush back or nothing Kyle.

[Guest]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

 

I still have no idea how the Bears do not have one quality safety on the roster after spending 4 top 4 round picks on safeties and one in the 6th round over the last 6 drafts. (Hardin, Conte, Steltz, Wright, Afalava)

 

Coming out on the wrong end of the Morgan Burnett/Major Wright draft. :(

[WrigleyField 22]

Wait, sucky teams survive journeyman 36 year old QBs?

 

Actually they probably do suck more than their record. They've been incredibly lucky with offensive injuries to the point that if you gave us normal injury luck on both sides of the ball, our offense could easily sputter and our defense still wouldn't be that great. This team still needs big improvements throughout the roster; some depth on offense and basically everything on defense. Fire Mel Tucker, or don't, I'm not sure it matters. He hasn't done anything to me to question his ability as a league average D-Coordinator, but I think there's little downside of his replacement being worse too. But if our defense improves next year, it will be mostly because of better players, and any new hire will be there mainly as some type of symbolic turnover and transition.

 

You could have hired a 3-4 D guy, let 1/2 the defense go in the offseason and we wouldn't be any worse on that side if the ball. Yea, losing 15 d-linemen to injuries hurt, but holy Christ our safeties play out of position a lot

 

Burn it down and start over

 

I still have no idea how the Bears do not have one quality safety on the roster after spending 4 top 4 round picks on safeties and one in the 6th round over the last 6 drafts. (Hardin, Conte, Steltz, Wright, Afalava)

 

That's the thing tho, Conte looked like he was on the rise last year

Its actually remarkable. The one constant from our coaching staff was the DB coach and we brought in a D coordinator with a DB background. Several conclusions you could start to draw;

 

- Our D Line was very important to the success of our D and Marenilli leaving has hurt everything

- Tucker is overriding Hoke and whatever he did isn't making an impact now

- General D injuries just putting more stress on the safeties

- Wright and Conte really are lost causes despite whatever promise for league average effectiveness they once showed.

[rawaction]

I'll give Emery a pass. When he took the job, his clear goal was to improve the offense. He's done that with personnel and coaching moves. Sucks he couldn't maintain the defense, but the offense was really bad.

 

The question now is can he build the defense back up while maintaining the offense? I don't think he can while also trying to find a new QB.

[rawaction]

Coming out on the wrong end of the Morgan Burnett/Major Wright draft. :(

 

Is Morgan Burnett any good? Seems like he was good but wasn't so great last year.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'll give Emery a pass. When he took the job, his clear goal was to improve the offense. He's done that with personnel and coaching moves. Sucks he couldn't maintain the defense, but the offense was really bad.

 

The question now is can he build the defense back up while maintaining the offense? I don't think he can while also trying to find a new QB.

To add to that, I do think the Bears had one of the worse infrastructures around when he took over. Consistency is born in the ability to draft and develop players throughout the draft, and by the end, Angelo was one of the worst at that. I think at the end of Angelo's last season we had the lowest number of drafted players as a roster composite. And top teams often are at the top. Not really something you can turn around quickly. When you had traded away a lot of top picks too and invested quite a bit in FA, it was a recipe for disaster, not to mention failing on the top picks you had. And yet, the Emery reign in 16-12 so far, so it hasn't been a disaster yet.

 

I will go as far to say though that the defense really doesn't matter. Even at its awful stage, our offense is conceivably good enough to overcome it most weeks and I can't imagine he can make our D worse.

[Guest]

4th and 11 really hurts

[WrigleyField 22]

4th and 11 really hurts

Not as much as 17 seconds. Just gotta redirect, bro.

[UMFan83]

4th and 11 really hurts

 

Especially because IIRC we got a pretty good pass rush on the play and were in Cassel's face, he just found an open guy and got it off in time.